Tom Horne Praises Kansas Voter-ID Court Ruling, Claims Fraud by "Illegals" Was Rampant

horne-tom-memorial-crop.jpg
Tom Horne, Arizona attorney general
Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne is praising a Kansas court ruling that he claims will curb the problem of "illegals" voting.

A political victory for Horne and anti-illegal-immigrant crusader Kris Kobach, Kansas' secretary of state, the ruling by U.S. District Judge Eric Melgren in Wichita says that the U.S. Election Assistance Commission overstepped its bounds by preventing the states from adding ID requirements to federal voting-registration forms.

See also:
-Supreme Court Strikes Down Proof-of-Citizenship Provision in Proposition 200
-State Can't Hide Federal Voter Registration Form, Judge Rules in Latest Blow to '04 Law

The ruling, which orders the Election Assistance Commission to help Arizona and Kansas implement a voter-ID requirement on federal forms, backs up the intention of a majority of Arizona voters, who in 2004 approved a ballot initiative that required ID at the polls.

Yet Horne's claim of rampant voter fraud by undocumented immigrants has been refuted by election officials.

Though Horne stated in a news release Wednesday that "there's been a media cover-up of the seriousness of voter fraud in Arizona," he's wrong, according to Helen Purcell, Maricopa County Recorder.

Purcell told the press last year that Horne was using inaccurate info to make his case of large numbers of non-citizens voting, and that only a "handful" of cases occur each year.

The extent of the problem may be minimal, but the issue has become quite a dog whistle for conservatives.

Secretary of State Ken Bennett, a conservative Republican running for governor this year, sued the U.S. Election Assistance Commission along with Kobach to force it to add new requirements to federal registration forms in their states.

Their arguments do have one strong point: The "honor system" currently used by federal forms is less-than-adequate to prevent non-citizens from voting. Sam Wercinski of executive director of the Arizona Advocacy Network, which has been fighting Horne's efforts, emphasized the problem inadvertently with quotes to the news media on Wednesday about the ruling:

"They sign under oath," Wercinski said. "In America, does our signature under oath no longer hold any weight?"

Yes -- it holds no weight.

Yet demanding government-issued ID at the polls also disenfranchises some legit voters who for whatever reasons cannot produce proper ID in time to vote. Richard Hasen of the University of California, Irvine, wrote in his election-law blog (as pointed out by the NY Times yesterday) that, "The upshot of this opinion, if it stands on appeal, is that states with Republican legislatures and/or Republican chief election officials are likely to require documentary proof of citizenship for voting, making it harder for Democrats to pursue a relatively simple method of voter registration."

A lawsuit filed by a wide range of advocacy groups against Arizona after the 2004 vote ended up with a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court last year that Arizona could not simply re-write the federal registration form at whim. But the High Court suggested Arizona could press the issue with the Election Assistance Commission -- and that's just what Arizona and Kansas did.

By filing the lawsuit against the EAC in Kansas, Horne apparently intended to avoid an appeal by in the U.S. Ninth Circuit of Appeals, which is often seen as liberal-leaning.

State election officials still expect an appeal by the EAC, though, and are therefore moving ahead with plans to have a two-tiered voting scheme this year that physically separates state and federal voting at voting locations.

Got a tip? Send it to: Ray Stern.

Follow Valley Fever on Twitter at @ValleyFeverPHX.
Follow Ray Stern on Twitter at @RayStern.

My Voice Nation Help
88 comments
DNichols
DNichols

Anyone remember America before the 2007 start of the I.C.E. Deportations/Incarcerations, before the "Great Recession", and the fall of the Housing Market after tens of thousands of homes were vacated by America's hardest most devoted un-documented Workers, before the food costs sky rocketed, when Jobs were abundent, we all worked together toward America's "Prospertiy", and twenty-five percent of Arizonans didn't struggle to put food on thier tables, back when good, and brotherhood existed, and Human Biengs weren't hated, and labeled as "illegal"?!

Any one remember who we used to be?!

Stop the Racism, stop the Hate.

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative is trying to have it both ways. He wants to support these rumor-based right-wing extremist measures, but does not want to seem like an actual right-wing wacko. His solution to that is to support the reactionary measures that are introduced but not the reasoning or justifications behind them. Sorry, but that's not how shit works.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

Utter nonsense.


43% of the eligible voters in Kansas don't even bother to vote ... that's nearly 900,000 people!


Who cares if a handful of ineligible votes are cast, no election in Kansas has ever turned on such razor thin margins.

DNichols
DNichols

Kansas sucks.

Mules, Jackasses, and Bigots.

Please Horne take your wife, and your other Sex Buddie, and move there?!

vagabond545454
vagabond545454

One thing for sure a lawyer who has been banned by SEC from doing business in stock market for his fraudulent activities, who has been under investigation for fraudulent illegal violation of campaign laws he ought to have a real insight into fraud!

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

"People who knowingly commit voter fraud try to hide, and since we haven't caught many vote-fraudsters yet that were actually trying to hide, that must mean that there are a bunch of people who HAVE committed voter fraud out there in hiding" - quote from valleynative





sarcasm!!!!!!!!

Cozz
Cozz topcommenter

The only real fraud in all this is HornyDog Tom.

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967 topcommenter

Oh and BTW, didn't Kris Kobach help write BS1070 along with thrice-disgraced, corrupt, narcissistic and mentally sick Thomas?


How's that working for ya Kris? The most conservative Supreme Court pretty much voided BS1070. 


And you call yourselves Republicans...


It'd be nice to see the Republican Party that made people like President Theodore Roosevelt and President Ronald Reagan. Those men are TRUE REPUBLICANS....

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967 topcommenter

Are Kansas and Arizona itching to pick yet another fight with the U.S. Supreme Court?


The Supreme Court has already stated that voter ID CANNOT be used on federal voting forms.That ruling can be applied to the states through the 14th Amendment.

So, I think it's time Kansas and Arizona both got their asses whipped by the most conservative U.S. Supreme Court since William Howard Taft in 1909....



theloushow
theloushow

Examples of "voter fraud" don't really exist.  "ELECTION FRAUD", however, is real.
ELECTION FRAUD. 
ELECTION FRAUD IS REAL.
(voter fraud is false.)
ELECTION FRAUD IS REAL.

robert_graham
robert_graham

It's true that voter fraud is rampid, not just by illegals but by other libtards too.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@dumbconservative @valleynative  


He wants to support these rumor-based right-wing extremist measures, but does not want to seem like an actual right-wing wacko."


That's his M.O. for sure ... a pathetic apologist for all things wretched and Repuglykan, whilst pretending to assert that he isn't a wretched bigoted racist hateful Rethug himself.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

... and 48% of eligible voters in Arizona didn't bother to vote in 2012 


... that's 2.3 MILLION eligible U$ citizen / Arizona Resident voters who didn't bother to vote.


Perhaps there ought to be a law that MANDATES voting by ALL eligible residents.


fishingblues
fishingblues topcommenter

@DNichols  Little Nicky:  You do know that your buddy  Fred Phelps was from Kansas.  And just like you he was a Democrat.  Your other buddy, the donkey boy, won't appreciate you including him with you and the other Kansas bigots.  The donkeyboy was born and raised in a Mexican whore house.  

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@dumbconservative  

That's not at all what I was saying.

The fact that you can't detect something which you are not allowed to look for is not evidence that it doesn't exist.

Do you have any refutation of what I actually said, or would you rather make things up?


WhoKnows
WhoKnows topcommenter

@MaskedMagician1967  Did you know that not one law by Kobach (including SB1070) has EVER gone fully into effect?  The guy is as nuts as Ted Cruz, but doesn't have access to a "Dr Susie" library!

Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@MaskedMagician1967  I refuse to include Reagan in that group.


Reagan was the start of the downfall of the Republicans leading to what we have now. Reagan would have gladly been one of todays 'extreme' Republicans and would have done then what todays Republicans are doing now, if he had been able to.



fishingblues
fishingblues topcommenter

@robert_graham    What the hell does "voter fraud is 'rampid' mean?  Is that a cross between rapid and rampant?  


Now as to the real fraud --- The biggest fraud is allowing people who are too stupid to wipe their asses, too ignorant to spell their own names and/or too lazy to work to vote.  That would disqualify about 90% of the liberals.     



Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@robert_graham  Post proof liar


You can't unless you post links for Republican Gerrymandering, Republican attempts to suppress voters or the Republican woman in Nevada who voted twice (commited voter fraud) claiming to be 'testing' the system.


danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@DonkeyHotay   i actually like that idea.........A LOT. (still a possibility that it could blow up in our faces, but still a good idea)

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

Arizona also BLOCKED and denied 96,000 residents who were in prison, on parole or on probation from their RIGHT to Vote.




dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative That's a pretty weak argument, no offense. You're basically implying that widespread voter fraud could be happening even though we can't detect it because things can still exist even if not proven. Again, that's a very weak argument.

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative  The point I was trying to make is that your above assertion - that something can exist without being detected - does not strengthen Horne's claim (that you're defending for some reason) of wide-spread voter fraud by illegals AT ALL. That is also true even if, as you say, officials aren't "allowed to look."

Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@valleynative  You are allowed to look for it all you like....


You are just not allowed to pass laws about it until you can show proof it exists.


Big difference

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative So they're forbidden from finding or looking for people who have committed voter fraud? And if there was such a rampant problem with illegals voting, then why can't they show us the evidence? If it was as wide spread as Tom Horne says it is, there would be tons of cases to prove his point. Guess what? There isn't.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@Flyer9753  ... the Gods of Karma delivered unto that wretched piece of crap the full torment and suffering he and his family deserved ...

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative @dumbconservative  So you don't believe that there is a wide-spread problem of voter fraud by illegals? If that's the case, then why are we going through this whole headache of verifying citizenship in the first place? Stop trying to justify extremist right measures that are strictly put in place to disenfranchise legitimate voters who could potentially vote against them. All these anti-fraud citizenship verification mandates were/are put in place based on the conspiracy theory that huge amounts of the undocumented are registering to vote and voting for politicians who are "pro-immigration" etc. Seems to me that you're defending those types of measures - the headline of the article even said that Horne believed the problem of illegals voting was "rampant."  If you don't want me to say that you implied that voter-fraud by illegals is wide-spread, don't come out in defense of measures that are put in place and justified based completely on that unproven assumption. It just makes it seem like you actually believe the justification that is being given by these politicians (like Horne) and it especially doesn't help when you say things like "just because we can't detect something doesn't mean it doesn't exist" in response to people who say there is no proof of this "rampant" voter fraud that Horne and the like speak of. I'm sorry if I said you thought that voter fraud by illegals was a huge problem, but that's the way you made it seem.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@dumbconservative @valleynative 


Once again, you're making stuff up and claiming it as my argument.  I guess you simply don't understand what I'm saying.  I'll try one more time.


The law does not allow voter fraud to be detected, because it does not allow any requirement for proof beyond checking a box saying that you're a citizen.


Under those conditions, we cannot know whether or not it is happening.  I have never said nor implied that it is "widespread".


DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@MaskedMagician1967 "Even Justice Scalia, a conservative Justice"


Nominated for Understatement of the Year.


"Benito" Scalia makes Pinochet look like a Liberal.

Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@valleynative @Flyer9753  Valley in the end none of this matters.


Laws are enacted when there is a need. You have not and cannot show a need for this law to be enacted.


Your saying it's happening is not enough, law requires proof otherwise it's not law, it's abuse of the law for control.


Show the evidence that additional laws are needed and the discussion can be had and will probably go forward along the lines you want.


So show the need for the law, which takes proof, otherwise it's a moot point and you are just chicken little'ing


Enacting anything without proof would be no different than me insisting that you are a gerbil fucker, without proof, and therefore we need laws protecting gerbils from you.


Would that be fair and just? Would that be a good use of our legal system? Enacting a law just because I think that might be the case but can provide no proof??


No it would not since I have no proof of the need for such a law... 


just like you have no proof of the need here.

Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@valleynative @Flyer9753  No one is stopping you from looking. That you have not found a way to look that is not illegal is not on the populace, it's on you. 


Show me a law and I will show you the impetus that existed for it's enactment - the problem is you can't show an impetus, only a suspicion and those are not the same thing

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@Flyer9753  

Both of those statements are untrue.

There is no practical way to verify citizenship without asking the person to provide proof.

Many laws are passed to prevent crimes that may not have been detected.  How stupid would it be to only make rules against things that people have already done?

 

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative @Flyer9753@dumbconservative "I also have trouble believing that liberals have been conned into believing that wanting to validate citizenship of people who vote is an evil plot"


When was it ever even said that liberals were conned into believing that validation of voter citizenship is an evil plot? Am I missing something?

dumbconservative
dumbconservative

@valleynative @Flyer9753@dumbconservative "I don't believe it's wide-spread, but I also have trouble believing that liberals have been conned into believing that wanting to validate citizenship of people who vote is an evil plot."


Then why do you support mandates that are put in place based precisely on that reasoning alone - the MYTH (that's exactly what it is) that voter fraud is rampant?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@valleynative @Flyer9753 @dumbconservative  


It makes NO DIFFERENCE in ANY ELECTION.


When nearly 50% of ELIGIBLE U$ Citizens FAIL to vote in any given election.


Do you really think that illegal aliens are dumb enough to believe that any vote they may actually cast counts toward making any difference at all?


Their time would be better spent buying a lottery ticket.


Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@valleynative @Flyer9753 @dumbconservative  And again your assumptions are wrong.


No one is saying that wanting to validate citizenship is bad, just the opposite actually.


What's amazing is your refusal to see that 1) it's already validated, like in all that information that I posted for you yesterday, including links, that you didn't bother to respond to since it proved you wrong.


2) these laws are not being used to validate but to INVALIDATE people who should be voting, US Citizens.


But then again, you always have had problems seeing what is staring you in the face.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@Flyer9753 @dumbconservative 

I don't believe it's wide-spread, but I also have trouble believing that liberals have been conned into believing that wanting to validate citizenship of people who vote is an evil plot.


danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@robert_graham how about asking for ID for an abortion Robert? do you know what sex would be asked for that ID yet? hahahahahahahahahahahaha..................you crack me up.........."i thought abortions only involved women......" hahahahaha .............."suppressing flying rights........" hahahahahaha ......where do you come up with this stuff?? your a funny guy Robert

Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@robert_graham @Flyer9753  we are talking about voting, not flying, stop trying to change the subject since you cannot show proof of what you claim.

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@robert_graham actually Flyer made a very simple request. you are the one claiming it is rampant and you always claim to speak the truth.............so show us, show us the truth with proof so we can believe you. if its as rampant as you say there should be some proof of it, show us. 

Flyer9753
Flyer9753 topcommenter

@robert_graham @Flyer9753  Hey, where is my subpoena bitch? You know, the one you supposedly delivered to my dead mother.


Please, let's see that too, I've always wanted to see a subpoena filled out in crayon.

Now Trending

Phoenix Concert Tickets

From the Vault

 

General

Home

Loading...