Phoenix Gun-Buyback Program Lives, After Another Anonymous $100,000 Donation

Categories: Guns
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Phoenix police and Mayor Greg Stanton have announced that another $100,000 from an anonymous donor will keep the gun-buyback program going.

The funds for the program ran dry in the middle of the second of three scheduled dates for the buyback, which started with an initial $100,000 donation. An additional 72 guns were given to police in exchange for nothing after the grocery-store gift cards ran dry on Saturday.

See also:
-Phoenix Gun-Buyback Funds Run Dry, but People Still Turn in 72 More Guns
-Pricey Colt AR-15 Assault Rifle Among Guns Turned in at Phoenix Police Buyback Event
-Phoenix Police Took in 803 Guns in Latest Buyback, but Just One Assault Rifle
-City of Phoenix Gun-Buyback Program Not Affected by New Law, for Now
-Jan Brewer Signs Bill for Gun Rights (As in Giving the Rights to the Guns)

The event, coordinated by Arizonans for Gun Safety, initially was scheduled to go on for three weekends this month, but the event -- which was funded to exchange gift cards for fewer than 1,000 guns -- took in 803 guns in the first weekend alone.

Even after consolidating it to just one location this past weekend, a couple hundred guns still were handed over to the cops, which looked to be the end of the program, billed as the largest gun-buyback event in the history of the state.

Now, with the new $100,000 donation, the gun buybacks will be taking place on Saturday at three different Phoenix churches: Southminster Presbyterian, Betania Presbyterian, and Sunnyslope Mennonite Church.

The program's taking place before the new law -- which specifically bans agencies from "facilitat[ing] the destruction of a firearm," and instead forces them to turn around and sell the guns to dealers -- that goes into effect.

Potential loopholes in the law to allow gun buybacks to go forward have been pointed out, but it remains to be seen if someone will attempt to use those loopholes.

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49 comments
jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

Oh good. I thought I was going to be stuck with this $85 parts gun. Now that I've stripped all the useful parts off I'm left to wonder if Basha's has ribs on sale this week.

IdontRecall
IdontRecall

I hope that They get another 900+ guns from people that still can come to reason. 900+ guns to be rightfuly destroyed...........public property?.....unlikely, since taxpayers money is not beign used to buy/back those weapons. Those weapons are beign bought with DONATED MONEY.

That's what LAW ABIDING citizens DO; get rid of any xtra weapons that for whatever reason They no longer want..

cassityg32
cassityg32

P.s. so when the police buy guns to destroy them the media goes insane & everyone is furious & in disbelief, but When animals are turned into a animal shelter & many are inevitably destroyed or when homes or nice businesses are bought by people who's sole purpose is to tear it down to replace it with nothing or a parking lot. Why are you all not up in arms to this extent about that?

cassityg32
cassityg32

Ya know, what does it matter to ANYONE if individuals VOLUNTARILY trade THEIR weapons that THEY OWN to the police (not some dealer, druggie, or someone who is mentally ill) with the intention of being distroyed for a gift card? It's NOT your gun, it intrudes on no ones rights ...... although taking away the right of someone to do whatever they want(as long as it is not harming anyone) with their property seems quite intrusive. No one is forcing anyone to give up their weapons here it is the OWNERS choice.

Stop fighting so hard to protect our constitution & our 2ond amendment rights while hypocritically ignoring the rest of the document. GET A LIFE & mind your own business.

kris
kris

My BF said a few months ago that to disarm the public they'd start having people turn in their guns for food. I called B.S. on that back then telling him "no way would people trade their guns for a few groceries! People aren't THAT dumb.."

Denise Mason
Denise Mason

I gotta wonder who it is that donates this money. Could it be the gun manufacturing companies? Just a thought.... And who just walks in to give up their guns for a gift card? Where do the guns come from? Great way to get rid of a gun used in a crime. I'm certain they don't do a ballistics test on them. Stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Great way to encourage gun theft.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

Legitimate questions that will never get answered: How much does this cost? How many law enforcement manhours are involved? Arpaio wastes countless manhours on stunts while felony warrents go unserved. Stanton is doing the same thing.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

Joe Arpaio's immigration raids and PPD's gun buy-backs. Two nonsolutions that pander to the base and waste taxpayer money. At least the gun buy-backs don't disrupt families.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

Looking on the bright side, a few more people who are too dumb to own firearms will be getting rid of them. 

The downside is that the guns will be removed from the used gun market, which makes it more difficult for those with less disposable income to exercise their right to be armed in order to protect themselves from violent crime.

It's sad that people who think they're doing good are actually creating a situation that discriminates against the poor.


valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@IdontRecall  It doesn't matter where the money comes from. Once they're turned over to the Police, they belong to the City of Phoenix.

They're welcome to get rid of them however they like, but if they choose to give them to the City, they become public property and must be disposed of according to law.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32   I don't think I've ever seen any indication of anybody going "insane" or being "furious" about this.  Where do you live?


valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32  The point you're missing is that the Police are destroying public property.

If you want to destroy a gun, you're welcome to do so.  Simply dismantle it and throw the pieces into separate dumpsters, or take a large hammer to the more delicate mechanisms.

cassityg32
cassityg32

That is such an inaccurate statement It doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative I generally agree with your comment that gun buy-backs are like removing a drop of water from the ocean - relatively insignificant and pointless.  But I think you're wrong about making it more difficult for low income folks to access weapons.  The same reason that makes buy-backs pointless is the same reason that it has no impact on prices - there are just so many guns available.  If buy-backs bought back enough guns to impact the supply of guns and raise prices, then they also would have an impact on gun crime.  But they don't buy back enough guns to impact the supply of guns so they have no impact on prices either.  I would venture that if you go to the nearest pawn shop or gun store the day before the gun buy back and the day after the gun buy back you will see no difference in pricing - because the gun buy back did nothing to reduce sheer volume of cheap guns available in the community.

cassityg32
cassityg32

Arizona, & I've seen & heard TONS of people ranting on & on about this issue

cassityg32
cassityg32

How is it public property? So if I take something I own & hand it over to the police it then belongs to the public? No way

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@cassityg32 What part is inaccurate?  The number of guns I cited?  The impact of buy-backs on the supply/demand equation?  I guess I'll never know because I'm so far beneath you I don't "even deserve a rebuttal."  Of course, facts would be really useful in proving your point, but actual facts are probably beneath you too, aren't you.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32  In other words, you think I might be wrong, but are afraid to try to point out any actual mistake, because I probably understand the situation a lot better than you do, and could make you look foolish.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public@valleynative The market response to a small drop in supply is not instantaneous or large, but the impact on the market of used guns available to honest citizens is going to be much larger than the impact on gun violence.   It's statistically very unlikely that any of these guns would ever have been used in violence.


valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32  Where?  Can you point me to an article or any other forum where people are ranting on about this issue?  Thanks.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@cassityg32 I suspect that PPD doesn't sell confiscated marijuana because it is still illegal under federal law.  I can't tell you why PPD doesn't sell confiscated drug paraphernalia, but I suspect it is for the same reason.  PPD does sell confiscated, abandoned and unclaimed just about everything else, including clothing.  You can frequently find auctions of surplus PPD items at Auction Systems of Phoenix.

How is this of anyone's cooncern?  If PPD took in 1000 guns and half of those are servicable, then they have 500 servicable guns.  If the average gun is worth $400, those 500 guns have a value of $200,000.  If the average Ford Interceptor police cruiser costs $40,000 - that $200,000 can purchase 5 new police vehicles without burdening the taxpayers for the cost of those cars.  Those that see this as an economic issue see this as their concern because they don't want PPD destroying $200,000 worth of guns any more than they want PPD light a pile of $200,000 in $1 dollar bills on fire.

I see this lesgialtion as just a continuation of our legislature's unhealthy and obssessive exaltation of guns, but I do recognize that there is an economic argument as well.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32  "yet those things end up destroyed as well.."

There are some guns that can't be legally owned. They will be destroyed, just like any paraphernalia that is illegal to own.

Anything else of value, other than evidence they need to hold onto, is routinely sold in Police auctions.


cassityg32
cassityg32

Ok, first of all with this public property law being what it is then it should apply to marijuana, clothing, parifinalia etc....yet those things end up destroyed as well so why such a fit over JUST guns? Why aren't we passing laws such as when a "tobacco" pipe (which is perfectally legal) is obtained by police it needs to be sold back to smoke shop owners? Regardless of ANY of this, you seem to have missed the point of my original question. HOW IS THIS ANY OF ANYONE'S CONCERN?

In all reality it effects no one. If I distroy a gun or the police do it makes no real difference in the grand scheme of things. Laws are publicly/openly being broken & huge amts of money mishandled daily by officials that are much more detrimental than this that we SHOULD be making an issue of, but this......

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@cassityg32 Then explain it to me cassityg32 so I can understand it.  After the gun owner hands the gun to the police officer and the police officer hands a gift card to the gun owner, and the Phoenix Police Department has taken physical possession of the gun and has taken the gun back to the police station - who owns the gun.  Does the individual still own it?  Does the police department own it?  Who owns it once the transaction is complete and the police department has physical possession of the gun?  Obviously I 'm not smart enough to figure it out, right, so explain it to me if you would be so kind.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32  After what you've posted, insulting my intelligence just makes you look that much sillier.

If you want to destroy guns, buy them, disassemble them, bang on them with hammers, throw them away.  Have fun.  But if you donate them to the Phoenix Police department, they become City property, and what you wanted to happen to them doesn't matter anymore.

cassityg32
cassityg32

Sorry I mistook you for someone with intelligence

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@cassityg32   I'm sorry, I mistook you for somebody who could at least understand the difference between property owned by a citizen and property sold to the Police.   Never mind.  

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@cassityg32 I'd explain to you how the weapons become public property once they are PURCHASED by the police department in the same way that a vehicle or computer becomes public property once it is PURCAHSED by the police department (or any other governmental agency), but I doubt that you're capable of understanding so I'm going to pass.

cassityg32
cassityg32

Also, why would it matter HOW it is disposed of? If your point is true then dismantling it would be destroying public property to. Ridiculous. Still it's not your business if I VOLUENTARLY participate what so ever

cassityg32
cassityg32

Oh & I was referring to John Q in my first reply. I agreed with your statement but whatever.

cassityg32
cassityg32

Ya, you're right. 100% Inaccurate but you got me pegged lol

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public  My point stands.  Even if we allow mouse guns, which is absurd, the cheap handgun market is small enough that removing 800 guns in that price range from the market is significant.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

 @valleynative I am well aware of the caliber of weapon that I would likely choose for home defense.  Because you've clearly lost sight of it, the issue we were discussing was whether the buy-back would signifincantly impact prices and I told you that it wouldn't and that lower-income citizens would still have access to a relatively affordable firearm.  It told you that the firearms in the same price range of the gift card were readily available and you asked for a citation.  I gave 3 examples of guns that were available between $120 - $240.  We'd all like to drive BMWs and Mercedes but guess what, sometimes our budget limits us to Nissan Versa, and sometimes to a used Nissan Versa at that.  Unlike your flawed analogy, the Cobra .380 is more like the used Versa (not a skateboard - your effort to minimize the otherside of the argument was incredibly transparent) - it will get you there but its not the fastest or the most stylish or the most comfortable.  The .380 can kill - clearly - and not just with a lucky shot.  Again, maybe not the first choice, but certainly a servicable option if that is what your budget permits.  You are free to finish this conversation with the last comment because I'm done at this point, but you will be wrong in your effort to once again split irrelevant hairs.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative  

Obviously, you can kill a person with a BB gun if you're lucky.

Mouse guns are intended for concealed carry when you can't conceal anything bigger.  You can carry one of these in your back pocket or a cell phone case.

BUT, If you're going to buy a gun for home defense, you buy something big enough to RELIABLY stop an attacker.

Again, simply google "defensive caliber" and educate yourself.  You'll find a range of opinions, but you'll find that most won't consider anything smaller than 9mm and 9mm is really only acceptable because it's cheaper and easier to practice with than .40 or .45.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public  If I had said that you can't find a decent vehicle for under $500, what you've proven is that there are bicycles and skateboards available in that price range.

Technically correct, but very clearly not the point.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

I'm not arguing the purpose or usefulness of a .380 vs. a .38 or a 9 mm or a .45. I've proven my point that firearms are readily available at the price point that PPD is offering gift cards. Period. That was the discussion and the reality is that a firearm is available for under $200, feel free to continue trying to get the the last word in, but I've proven my point.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative Google defensive caliber.  A .380 is not a home defense gun.   A few people will make a case for 9mm, with expensive loads and enough practice to be sure to hit a vital spot.  Most say you need a .40 at least.

The .380's you'll find are commonly referred to as "mouse guns".

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative  Fine.  I wasn't clear.

I'm complaining that guns that could be purchased by low-income citizens and used for home defense are being held off the market.

The phrase "used for home defense" excludes .380's and .22's.


JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative So now I don't just have to prove that guns are available for under $200, I have to prove that guns you approve of are available for under $200.  Or that there are guns available for under $200 that meet your approved criteria.  Come on - you asked me for a cite to prove that guns were available in the same $$ range as the amount of the gift cards being handed out by PPD and I did that. 

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative  There aren't any gun shows in the Valley this month, but you should take a look at one when you get a chance.  You don't find swarms of people selling guns at those prices.  You're not likely to find much of anything for under $300.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative Sure.  My source is the licensed federal firearms dealer that advertises with the bold yellow ad on this site.  For a cheap handgun they offer a Cobra Freedom .380ACP 3IN 5rd Black/Black for $115.  For a rifle – you can get a Crickett 253 Crickett Bolt 22 Long Rifle 16.12" Red, for $141.  The cheapest shotgun is a little more expensive - they have a Maverick 88 12 Gauge/18.5" Barrel W/Full Stock for $234.  I found those prices at the first place I looked, without shopping around and without negotiating.  They may be lower quality guns than you would want to own, but they are cheap and plentiful.  Now if that is the price from a FFL dealer, imagine what the price is for an all cash, no paperwork "private sale" occuring on the perimter of a gun show where guns are plentiful and background checks are not required for a good portion of the transactions.  Without commenting on whether it is good or bad, guns are simply cheap, plentiful and easily accessed. 

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative 

You're looking at the total firearms market.

These few hundred guns are being denied to the local supply of used guns in the $100-$200 price range, which is VERY small.


JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative  Just as its statistically unlikely that the removal of those guns from the market will have any (large, small, up, down or sideways) impact on prices.   There are an estimated 310 million guns in private hands in the U.S. and millions more new guns being sold every year so I think that you and I can agree that the number of guns available in the market is a huge number relative to the modest number of guns taken off the streets in buy-backs so the buy-backs won't make any difference in terms of price of guns.

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