Arizona's New Law Preventing Guns Obtained in Buybacks From Being Destroyed: Yay or Nay?

Categories: Morning Poll
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People who wish to turn over guns to their local governments to have them destroyed won't have that option in a few months.

Governor Jan Brewer recently signed the bill that prevents the government destruction of guns obtained in buyback programs, as the City of Phoenix and Phoenix Police Department just held perhaps the biggest gun buyback event -- with gun-destruction included -- this past weekend.

See also:
-Phoenix Police Took in at Least 800 Guns in Latest Buyback
-City of Phoenix Gun-Buyback Program Not Affected by New Law, for Now
-Jan Brewer Signs Bill for Gun Rights (As in Giving the Rights to the Guns)
-Mayor Stanton, Unveils Gun-Buyback Program in State of the City Address

Phoenix PD, taking part in a gun buyback that used private funds to give people grocery-store gift cards in exchange for their guns, told New Times yesterday that it looks like at least 800 guns were taken in.

Now, it would seem that the new law -- which specifically bans agencies from "facilitat[ing] the destruction of a firearm," and instead forces them to turn around and sell the guns to dealers -- completely defeats the purpose of the gun buybacks, as the intent of the programs is for the owner to get the gun off the streets.

Do you support this new law?

Cast your vote below:



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Follow Matthew Hendley on Twitter at @MatthewHendley.




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72 comments
sarum
sarum

I laughed out loud when I read that  Seattle would be melting their buyback guns into . . . get this . . . "peace bricks!"  Bricks have been known to be lethal in the wrong hands too!  Somehow they will place them around the city - securely I presume.

Ingrid Irwin
Ingrid Irwin

THIS is what frustrates me about AZ Legislature.Wasting our hard earned taxpayer dollars again and muteing something that was important.I want to fire them all!

walkerazcarpenter
walkerazcarpenter

ALL of the posts on here assume that there are lots more responsible gun owners who can't possibly have their guns stolen and used to shoot them in Phoenix. Most guns deaths in the home are attributed to SUICIDE. The second leading cause is someone getting shot with their own gun during a home invasion. Having a gun sitting around when you aren't A) the police or B) military usually ends up with you shooting yourself, according to the statistics. Why should we relieve this temptation? Because you might, like some have done, decide to take some people with you, including  murder suicides that are really regular events in Phoenix. They happened to people that were supposedly really stable at the time they purchased the gun.

Jasmine Michaels
Jasmine Michaels

With that rationale, marijuana that is seized by the police should be immediately sold to medical marijuana dealers across the state to give money back to taxpayers. Do you think the good 'ol AZ GOP would be up for that?

Brandon Doyle
Brandon Doyle

Less guns means less gun murders and thats fucking boring amiright?? Yeah murrica

Andrew Jones
Andrew Jones

And we all know how much criminals, i mean, politicians, follow laws.

Andrew Jones
Andrew Jones

Just when you think AZ is almost doing something right, they turn right around and fuck the dog.

Joe Rollins
Joe Rollins

We should hand them out to children at school so they can protect themselves. Because the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

walkerazcarpenter
walkerazcarpenter

This is as intelligent as arresting someone for "sales of dangerous drugs", confiscating the drugs, then selling them to another potential drug dealer later, to be distributed to the public through "sales of dangerous drugs". STUPID! We are trying to get the guns out of the hands of people who might eventually sell them to someone else. Instead we buy them to destroy, not give them back to the public. It defeats the whole purpose of a gun buyback.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

Since we're still talking about this,  I'll reiterate my comments from yesterday.  First, most people don't realize that Arizona law already required that firearms that were seized by the police (not turned in like this) be sold to dealers under ARS 12-945(B) - Per the AZ Republic, DPS has been trading seized weapons for ammo for years. This law only extends that requirement to gun buy-backs so it’s really not that ground breaking or remarkable.

Second, there were almost 150,000 NICS background checks conducted in the first four months of 2013. Assume even just 50% are new gun sales - that's 75,000 additional guns sold in Arizona so far this year (added to the number already owned in Arizona). Taking 800 or even 8,000 guns off the streets isn't going to make even a small dent in the number of guns available in Arizona so whether the guns are destroyed or sold back into the community doesn't matter one iota.  So destroying them is pointless and selling them is pointless because neither makes any statistical difference in the number of guns in our community.

Third, the law does not dictate where the guns are sold so it seems to me that a city that does not want these guns back in their community can sell them, potentially, to a gun dealer in Texas or Florida or anywhere else so they end up in that community there and not here (assuming there are no issues under federal law).

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@sarum Did you read about the drive-by bricking in South Phoenix or South Central LA last weekend.  No??  Neither did I.

sarum
sarum

@walkerazcarpenter Agreed in a way.  Determining why they are no longer stable is crucial here.  Anybody can be made "mentally ill" when pushed to their limits and this economy is doing that to many so I do not agree to take away the guns.  I would rather have a gun in case someone "loses it" around me I have a chance of survival.  I also do not condemn suicide in all cases.  In many cultures it is honorable.  Also what is noble about suffering excruciatingly until death?  

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@walkerazcarpenter 

Flat out lies.   You make yourself look foolish and don't help your cause even a little.

Statistics absolutely do NOT support your bs that people other than military or police are likely to shoot themselves.  Do you have ANY concept of how many hundreds of thousands of gun owners there are in the Valley alone?  In your fantasy world, people would be shooting themselves several times each day.


valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@walkerazcarpenter  I'm surprised that I have to point this out, but unlike "dangerous drugs", there's is nothing intrinsically illegal about most of these guns, and any that can't be legally sold will be destroyed.

You say that the point is to get the guns out of the hands of people who might otherwise sell them.   If that's the case, why are they taking the low-ball offer from the police instead of taking them to a gun store?   If it's that they know that the gun is probably wanted by the police then there's no problem, because the police won't resell hot guns.

I don't see any point to destroying the guns other than to discriminate against low-income citizens by reducing the market of inexpensive used firearms.

walkerazcarpenter
walkerazcarpenter

@JohnQ.Public Half is more than one iota, you pandering troll. Internet Troll = someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


sarum
sarum

@JohnQ.Public Nope but when the guns are gone the bricks and pitchforks will return.  And hey, we have alot of disenfranchised seniors with oxygen tanks too!

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative @walkerazcarpenter Per AZ Dept. of Health Services, its about 1.4 suicides by firearm per day in Arizona (not just Maricopa county) in 2009 (last year that stats are available).  Hope that adds context to your discussion.

Neither here nor there, but most people general only shoot themselves once per day - suicide by firearm is so effective that people rarely need to shoot themselves several times to accomplish it.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@walkerazcarpenter Huh???  I take it that reading comprehension not one of your strongest skills.  Let me help you.  There were 150,000 background checks conducted in Arizona from Jan - April 2013.  Assume 50% were for new guns - that is 75,000 new guns sold in Arizona so far this year.  Removing 800 guns from the community is insignificant compared to the 75,000 new guns that were sold into the community.  Does that help you understand my point????

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative @JohnQ.Public Look at that - you and I just became TOP COMMENTERs.  Not sure what that means, but congratulations.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@sarum @valleynative @JohnQ.Public @walkerazcarpenter  A lot of mental health care is, and should be directed to people with "adjustment reactions" rather than long-term psychopathy.  If you lose your job, your spouse leaves you and dog dies, you might need care, even though you're not "crazy".

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative The fact that you think I'm upset is interesting.  I recognized and actually ignored your word play.  Maybe some of the confusion comes from the fact I thought I was responding to the original wacko. 

sarum
sarum

@valleynative @JohnQ.Public @walkerazcarpenter Focus will never be on mental health care if that care can be used to remove your rights from you.  People will simply refuse.  I agree with you in a way but I think that many "mental health" issues would be resolved if we didn't have such a predatory throw away (as in people) society.  I hate to advocate for a more litigious environment but the true facts of the matter are that there is a huge population that cannot afford attorney, will never qualify for Legal Aid, and are easy prey for all manner of supposedly legitimate businesses.  Our Corporation Commission supports corporations in redlining/robbing.  For the vast majority of the population, the laws that supposedly protect them are merely ink on paper, and business people know it and lie for each other accordingly, knowing that the victim can never afford representation.  I would call these conditions one of the largest factors in creating so-called "mental illness."  Not going to write a book about the other causal factors here just to say that I suspect that true mental illness in all actuality is a much smaller percentage of the population than authorities wish to claim just as we know that so many of their other numbers are fiction/fudged.  (Almost all of them.)

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative Dude, relax.  The last part was a little play on your grammar.  People obviously can't shoot themselves several times each day - just a little word play, man. 

Yeah, I know what the stats say which is why I was very specific to point out that they were statewide.  If I wanted to mislead with the stats I would have left that part out - but I didn't because I wanted to be both clear and accurate. 

I know you love your guns, but just relax before you have an aneurism or something.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @valleynative @walkerazcarpenter   Several times per day in the Valley.  Your own statistics show that to be untrue.  You do understand that "not just in Maricopa county" means that there are fewer than that number in the Valley, right?

Now, for bonus points, calculate how many suicides there are per firearm.  It's a very tiny percentage.  

Regardless, it supports my position that society needs to focus on mental health care, not taking guns away from honest citizens.

 

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@valleynative Our legislature declared an official state gun last year. We have that, the bolo tie and a couple minerals as objects that are legislatively enacted state symbols. Its safe to say that guns hold an exalted status in Arizona compared to other objects. The state can prove me wrong by declaring an official state washer and dryer combo, or maybe an official state automobile or some other commercial inanimate object as an official state whatever. Until then its clear that guns hold a special status in this state.

valleynative
valleynative topcommenter

@JohnQ.Public @MandyMountain  Or it could just be that the police already have a longstanding tradition of auctioning other property, but often waste money by destroying firearms.

When you try too hard to look for justifications for your preconceived ideas, sometimes you overlook the obvious answers.


JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@MandyMountain No - the law allows the police to "dispose" of every other type of property in any way the see fit EXCEPT FOR firearms.  Firearms get special treatment under the law.  ARS 12-941(A) states "A state, county, city or town agency shall dispose of all property that was used as evidence and that remains unclaimed in the hands of the agency, after final disposition of the cause in which so used, or that was seized by a peace officer as being used unlawfully or for an unlawful purpose and that was held unclaimed from the date of seizure, or that came into the hands of the agency as unclaimed or contraband. "  Dispose is defined "the transfer of property by its return to the owner, sale, conversion or destruction or by any other means of disposal" So the law permits the police to flush a $10,000 diamond ring down the toilet but forces them to sell a $300 used gun. See how that works - instead of  making police protect tax payers by selling EVERYTHING, the legislature focussed on protecting guns from destruction because guns, apparently, hold some sort of exalted status that other inanimate objects do not.

JohnQ.Public
JohnQ.Public

@david_saint01 This is the part that is going to amaze you - Arizona law already required that a firearm seized by police because it was used for an illegal activity be sold to a licensed dealer.  This legislation only added gun buybacks to that requirement, but that requirement already existed as ARS 12-941(A) which states, "state, county, city or town agency shall dispose of all property that was used as evidence and that remains unclaimed in the hands of the agency, after final disposition of the cause in which so used, or that was seized by a peace officer as being used unlawfully or for an unlawful purpose and that was held unclaimed from the date of seizure, or that came into the hands of the agency as unclaimed or contraband." This section goes on to require that this property be sold to a licensed dealer for sale to the public.  So, guns used for murder or aggravated assault were already requred to be sold - this legislation doesn't change thta.

december
december

@david_saint01 @valleynative @walkerazcarpenter 

@david_saint01 - Unless you ARE a family member of a homocide victim then you should really not speak for other people.  I am of the opinion that everyone owning a gun levels the playing field and I AM a family member of a homocide victim.  The fact that a weapon has been recirculated by our government should be of no surprise to anyone.  You mean to tell us that there's somebody in ANY branch of government that can be trusted?

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