Nina Koistinen Says She Killed Her 6-Day-Old Baby Because She "Had Too Many Kids Already"

Categories: Bad Parents
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MCSO
Nina Koistinen
A Phoenix mother admitted to killing her 6-day-old baby girl because she "had too many kids already," police say.

According to court documents obtained by New Times, the woman, 36-year-old Nina Koistinen, has prior run-ins with Child Protective Services and previously had said she wanted her children "to go to heaven in a vehicle accident that appeared intentional."

According to police, Koistinen's husband found his 6-day-old daughter, Maya, unresponsive inside their home, near 56th Street and Thunderbird Road, on the morning of April 8.

Maya was pronounced dead that morning at a hospital.

According to court documents, "possible signs of suffocation" were discovered during an autopsy, and police dug up the CPS records on Koistinen.

In addition to her comment about killing her kids in a car crash, she also talked about "wanting to smother some of her children," according to the documents.

Police didn't arrest Koistinen after her initial interview with police but did after her second interview, conducted Thursday at Phoenix PD headquarters.

"During the interview, Nina admitted she smothered Maya because she thought she had too many kids already and she was jealous of the attention [her husband] was giving baby Maya," a probable-cause statement says. "The father . . . was put in the interview room with Nina and she admitted to him that she pinched Maya's nose, twisted, suffocated, and smothered baby Maya."

Koistinen was booked into jail on one count of first-degree murder.

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201 comments
haileyjo
haileyjo

It is absolutely disgusting how suddenly it's considered brutal murder 6 days after the baby is born, but this fully developed child 7 days ago could have had his or her brain stem snipped and limbs tore off for the same reason without it being considered a crime.  Life has no value anymore, and yet we wonder why there are so many killings.

lawrencelawncareland
lawrencelawncareland

Just smother her and save tax money... the mother of course... make it take awhile. put her head in a box with about five mins of air

rtmud1234
rtmud1234

to bad this "mother" in name only was not aborted when her mother had the chance

timdlittle
timdlittle

Bottom line. we could have saved the state and the tax payer hundreds of thousands of dollars for a $500 abortion. She would not be in jail.

e2612202
e2612202

Everything here pretty much comes down to two things:

1) You can agree to pursue the truth no matter what you might discover.

2) OR you can coddle, lie, and delude yourself to maintain "faith" and a false sense of security.

As long as people in the church are too cowardly to take an honest assessment of the facts - arguments based on sound logic and reason are useless. As long as people in the church continue to deliberately lie to themselves like overgrown children, afraid of the dark - there's not much we can do. As long as groupthink, doublespeak, and hypocrisy are the alternative to genuine scientific inquiry -- then there's no medium for communication.

All we can do is encourage such people to take a deep, long look at themselves in the mirror - and ask them to ask themselves a few questions:

1) Do you really think that god is evil enough to condemn 99.999% of the world to a fiery hell for eternity -- and is that kind of a god even worthy of our worship? What kind of a messed up, serial killing, masochist being is that kind of a god? 

2) Do you think it's okay for god to support rape, murder, slavery, and pillaging? Again, that kind of a god is sick and disturbing. READ this: http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm  ( I encourage you to open up your mind and actually click on that link -- even if it's just out of curiosity. )

Wake up a little bit. The world is a much bigger, brighter place than people in the church make it out to be.

sinful
sinful

@hellokitty    Nice try @ damage control....you really sound like a PUSSY! 

Xllcer
Xllcer

that has been my mission since I got out. It's very frustrating when u do help pull them out and the llc ers pull them back in! I was lucky to have a few friends that got out w me. I am still friends with a lot of llcers in fact I employ a couple of them. Good people but need to take the blinders off

Xllcer
Xllcer

I was born into this also. Thank god I was able to get out

Anon
Anon

Definitely born into it.

Xllcer
Xllcer

First off I pray for her family I can't imagine what they are going through. Could any one tell me if she was born into this church or if she "repented"?

steph_1011
steph_1011

I would like to add my comments as a former LLCer. I see many comments here that state they think Nina had a choice whether or not to keep having more children. I remember reading an article in one of the LLC publictions on birth control less than a year ago. It clearly states that it is a sin to use any form. And that a woman not wanting sex is just as much of a sin as using the birth control pill. "Be fruitful and multiply", also regardless of her mental state. It is pushed on you so much that if you don't follow the rules you will surely burn in hell. That fear is so great that you do anything that is expected of you in order to go to heaven and not be damned to eternal burning.  Women married in that church do not have a choice whether or not to have more children. It is what is expected of them and that is all they are raised to know. As for another person posting on here about shifting the blame, it's not about putting blame on anyone else, it's about making those that have had a hand in it take responsibility. A woman who had a very severe mental state was made to keep bearing children because "if she couldn't handle it, god would close her womb". I will find that article I am quoting about the use of birth control and I will make it public. There is no choice in the Laestadian cult with regards to child bearing and how many children you have. It is a sin to choose.

Seaangel74
Seaangel74

As a former member of the church they belong to, I think that the teachings of the church has some responsibility in this by way of brainwashing and ostracising members if they do not follow the teachings of the church. These teaching do not always coincide with what is written in the Bible and are frequently skewed in favor of the hierarchy in the church. 


Furthermore, what happened to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? Although the police report states that she confessed, one needs to take into account the mental stability and the severity of her schizophrenia. Depending of the tactics employed by investigators to get a confession, there's no telling if their methods influenced her perception of reality to where she thought she actually did it. After all, there have been no other reported signs of trauma released other than a suspected suffocation. She was breastfeeding and on heavy medication. It is just as probable that this was an unfortunate accident of a mother rolling on her baby in her sleep.


On that note, if she did in fact smother her baby, regardless of the aforementioned arguments, she should be held accountable for her actions. It is my hope that society doesn't overlook the underlying problem that led to these events. Hopefully the world quits turning a blind eye to the the Laestadian Lutheran Church and puts an end to the mental and physical abuses that go on within its congregation.

frozerosedawson
frozerosedawson

@haileyjo how many babies do you know that that happens to? how is your comment even relevant? Most women who get abortions, at the proper time, aren't mentally ill. This woman definitely appears to have some mental instabilities. 

hellokitty
hellokitty

@sinful @hellokitty  goodness, name calling is okay as long I don't agree with you. You need to learn respect. It is so easy to talk nasty and mean when you sit at the computer. If we were face to face, I don't think  you would behave like this or maybe you would. We all have our right to express freely without bashing and name calling.

hellokitty
hellokitty

@sinful @hellokitty I don't think this is a place for name calling. I don't understand your anger. I can have a view and opinion and live the life I want to, it's called freedom and respect. Quit coming across as you are the only one that is right and no other opinion matters. I feel bad for this family that has suffered such a tragedy. Let those involved take care of their needs and quit hammering on everything else. I think out of respect for the family, the media needs to stop pushing trash that isn't out there..and that's in many media reports today. Let people have a life without everyone trashing the family.   

Anon531
Anon531

@Xllcer I know I am just wasting my time on here and won't comment further, I just simply cannot believe the "x-llcers" and their mis-leading, not true statements. I am truly sorry for your interpretation of the LLC, but please know that there ARE people who are happy, content, and Thankful to be a part of this faith, so really, no need to pity us.

Truth-be-told
Truth-be-told

@Xllcer  Good for you leaving! 

As a child at LLC, I began questioning the ways of the church. I had not doubt at maybe 8 years old, the very basis of this church and it's Christianity was wrong. I had no intention of EVER teaching my child these backward beliefs. I refused to be forced into an extreme religious behavior.

Growing up, I was not sure what would happen if people left the church, I just did. Maybe I didn't really care, I was NOT one of them. It was actually easy leaving. They had already alienated me as a child. The LLC members and my extended family already basically disowned me well before I left. I was a child, that was born into a family that was not considered "ideal" Christian family in their eyes.

Anon
Anon

@Xllcer  Make it your mission to help others get out Xllcer....they need a lot of support and encouragment so they dont live in fear of going to hell just for choosing to no longer judge everyone in the world, arrogantly thinking they are the only true believers!  You could be a great resource for a lot of the younger LLC ers that feel trapped and have no where to turn. Put the word out..offer a safe, welcoming, unconditional place to go.   Good for you, you should be proud of yourself and I wish you a wonderfully peaceful, happy life!

Truth-be-told
Truth-be-told

@Xllcer She was born into the church, most of us were.   As far as the repentence, I think that is left up to her, to ask for repentence. I believe she has to ask the ministers.   I left a few decades ago, so I can't remember exactly the details of repentence.   The smaller sins you can go to anyone in the congregation to be forgiven of sins

Anon531
Anon531

@steph_1011 You're wrong. There is a choice. Faith is a choice. Everyday I make the choice to believe and I accept the children God gives me. And if I ever feel that this faith isn't for me, or I want to control the number of children I have, I will leave, just as you have. I am happy, content, and grateful for my faith and am truly saddened at the twisted way you look at it. As for the "if she couldn't handle it, god would close her womb" quote, the media chose to publish those ten words out of a 45 minute interview they had with our minister, you have no idea what was said before or after that, what question they asked him, which words they chose to leave out, or if he was even talking specifically about Nina's case, so let's not get so hung up on that "quote". I realize I am wasting my time on here, you won't change my mind, I won't change yours, but please have some respect and realize that we don't want your pity. 

teknik
teknik

and the bible says the devil will pretend to be a man of cloth.

lulu80mimi
lulu80mimi

@steph_1011 I'm interested in reading the article that you mentioned in your post.  Thank you.  The LLC is an abusive cult and you are exactly right....women have no choice in regards to bearing children they are taught and brainwashed to believe they will go straight to hell if they do anything to prevent pregnancy.  Makes me so damn mad!!! ~X-LLC'er.

hellokitty
hellokitty

@Seaangel74  This case has nothing to do with religion. There are many faiths that are similar to this, why pick on this one?  Just because you don't agree with the faith, doesn't mean they are the cause. This is the separation of church and state here and this is the choice we have is the freedom of religion.  Yes, it a very sad situation. But do you blame the gun that kills or do you blame the gunman?  do you blame the bomb that kills, or do you blame the guys that set off the bomb?  Stop and think about it ....  

e2612202
e2612202

@hellokitty @sinful Your viewpoints are hardly worthy of respect. They're cavemanish, mindless, and moronically absurd. It's reactionaries like you who have cast dark stains of blood across human history. 

The truth is people like you are nothing new. The innovative people responsible for mankind's greatest inventions have always been mocked, ridiculed, and abused by people just like you; People who live out of perpetual fear for the unknown; People who don't see the natural beauty there is in the pursuit of evidence based truth; People who gain comfort from pushing down those around them -- crushing their spirit, their potential, and their will to live. You might think that's extreme, but that is exactly the culture cultish Laestadianism promotes.

And do you know what? History has always judged the reactionaries of the past. From slave owners of the 1860s, to the racists of 1960s, from the geocentrists of the 1600s, to the anti-gay rightists of today... those who abuse the power of religion have always been scorned by future generations. 

And do you want to know something else? People like you always lose. It's inevitable. There's a reason why pastors have stopped supporting slavery and racism even though they used the Bible to do so in the past.

I don't have to respect your ideas... but I will tolerate your right to have them.




sinful
sinful

@Anon531 #1 YES, you are wasting your time  #2  we don't pity you, we pity your stupidity.     You know 99% of all the ex-llc's statements are true.  Don't tell me you are all happy because by the time a lot of the church women turn 40 they look like they were put through the wringer.  True happiness is not limited.

s_1011
s_1011

@Anon531  "God created Nina with her mental illness. He gave her all the children she could bear. And if she couldn't handle more kids, God would've closed her womb." is the quote that was given. So it wasn't just 10 words that could be taken out of context. You are right in the aspect that you can choose whether or not to be in that cult. But it is not a choice when you are in that church to keep having children. I agree that some people can be happy with many children and care for them properly but not everyone can. It should not be engrained in your head that you will go to hell and that there's something wrong with you if you choose not to keep having children when your are not mentally capable of it. That whole church is completely about brainwashing and fear. And I don't expect you to understand that since you are one of the brainwashed ones that can not think for themselves. BTW the women in Warren Jeffs cult say the same things as you do.

eyeswideopen
eyeswideopen

@lulu80mimi @steph_1011 The men are victims in this just as the women are.  They are also subject to the teaching.  They also are taught, like the women are, that not having sex to not have kids is also birth control, so if they don't want sex due to the likelihood of getting pregnant, they too feel the guilt, of putting their earthly desire of having an easier life in front of their desire of reaching heaven.  If a couple in the LLC does choose birth control, despite the teaching, I am sure it is accompanied with a bunch of guilt, and often with hiding from other members why they truly aren't having more kids. 

Truth-be-told
Truth-be-told

@hellokitty OF course it has to do with with religion!

THE followers of the church are too brainwashed to see they are being controlled.   The founders had brainwashing plan, and it worked!!!  People stay cause they know no better, and FEAR. FEAR is planted for a reason.  The manual of the LLC controls the men and women from birth, holding eachother accountablle by going to hell if they allow their spouse to stray. The population of the church would die out if these mothers were not birthing rapidly to keep is growning, The founders had brainwashing plan, and it worked. 

The foundation of why she continued to have more kids, even though she had a mental illness.   "She said she had too many children", sick or not she said that was the reason.  AND   Why did she have so many children? The of fear to go to hell for not continuing to use the crackin' baby machine, because her womb was still working and make 'em.   She now connect the church and state.  The state will take over.  Cause now the secret plan is revealed.  HUMAN RIGHTS!!  Why else would the European Union get involved in 2009.

Truth-be-told
Truth-be-told

@sinful I like you!!! Calling it like it is! First time I think I found my new faith of people who understand.   I actually felt alone leaving.  I never knew so many people felt  this is way. 

Seaangel74
Seaangel74

@hellokitty Respect is earned. I am more at peace with myself and my past now that I know just how deep the brainwashing went when I was growing up in that cult. I have no bitterness or hatred; I only seek the truth. All of it. 

Going off the of the comments that you left for Bubbalouie, any validity that you may have had just got thrown out the window. Not only are your arguments founded on news reports (it's on the internet so it must be true?), you have no personal experience or expertise in the church and religion that you're so passionately arguing for. I know it's hard for you to comprehend, but an outsider looking in can never know the true depths of personal hell people go through in that church.

bubbalouie
bubbalouie

@hellokitty  Apparently denial is not just a river in Egypt, honey.  That's okay...I'm not mad, dear.  I will  have a nice day, thank you.  :o)

hellokitty
hellokitty

@bubbalouie No, I am not a member. I briefly looked at the book. It wasn't my type of reading. I read the articles online, news reports, and so forth. I am just kind of cracking up at your "viciousness" and you seem to know who I am when you really don't. You are quick to judge. Oh well, have a nice day.  Hope your bitterness doesn't eat you alive. 

hellokitty
hellokitty

@Seaangel74 @hellokitty My arguements are moot because you are a very bitter person with much hatred. get some counseling so you can respect other people that don't think like you. You need to listen to others that may have a different opinion than yourself. and respect them for who they are whether they agree with you or not. 

Seaangel74
Seaangel74

@bubbalouie Wow! That's an amazing analysis and articulated very well. You definitely hit the nail on the head with that one. Thank you!

bubbalouie
bubbalouie

@hellokitty  It is apparent that you are making a judgment about the book without having read it.  I have read it, on the other hand, and it is actually a thoroughly-researched, even-handed impartial look at the Laestadian church.  There is commentary from the author in there, which makes it all the more interesting, but every statement of fact in the book is cited, and many of the sources are the literature from the LLC itself.  You would not consider those to be credible?

It is also apparent that you feel quite defensive about your church, and understandably so. No, I don't think you said you are a member of the LLC, but it's pretty obvious.  It can't be easy to see your church be ridiculed in the press, in public. My gosh.  What if someone you know thinks all of that about you by reading these articles? 

I find it interesting, though, that you and others are trying to shut down the flow of information from ex church members.  I'm sorry to tell you that trying to shut people down is going to be just about as easy as deflecting the water gushing from a fire hydrant with a teaspoon.  You will look desperate, and all you will succeed in doing is getting water everywhere.  

And why is it, even though you and the ex-members grew up in the same faith, that you think you are the only one with a valid opinion of the church?  The church is just as much the heritage of people who have left as it is yours.  They have just as much right to an opinion about it as you do. And if you don't happen to like their opinions, guess what.  Too bad!  That doesn't negate their experiences, nor does it make it necessary for them to stop talking.

If you're happy with the church and your life and your choices, great!  Live life! Have kids!  That is not a problem.  No one is trying to stop you from that.  But to make so much fuss about what other people have to say makes your claims a little suspect. 

And your comment about rules "not coming across that way"?  All I have to say about that is that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, you can call it a seagull or a chickadee until you're blue in the face, and no one will believe you.  

Let's just imagine that during Mr Jurmu's infamous Mother's Day sermon last year, a woman stood up and said, "I disagree!  I am not willing to risk my life to have any more children.  My doctor said that there is a ninety percent chance that I will die giving birth if I have any more children.  I am going to get my tubes tied.  And I will still go to heaven."

Do you think Mr Jurmu would back down from his strong statement on birth control, or retract his statement about physical death and obedience being better than eternal death?  Would he give her a pass, and say she would still be heaven acceptable?  

Absolutely. Positively. Not.  

The pressure would begin, trying to coerce the woman to conform to his teaching.  Would not many of the mothers in the congregation also reach out to this woman and try to convince her that truly, life and death are in God's hands, and it is not for us to try to take charge of those things?   If she didn't back down, and didn't comply, how likely is it that she would still be accepted as one of the flock?  People would start to talk, moms would think twice about letting their kids play with her kids, and she would begin to be ostracized.  The only way people get away with flouting the rules is if they are not blatantly open about it.  Keep it in the closet.  Hide it in the basement.  Lock it up in your dresser drawer.  Whisper it only to a trusted few.  If she were that open about it, she would feel the pressure of the church breathing down her neck.

Between the ministers' preaching, the expectation that married couples do nothing to prevent pregnancy, and the social control of other church members always nudging people to do the same as they are doing, there is a huge amount of pressure to conform.  A devout mother who wants to stay "believing" will almost certainly submit her will to the greater groupthink mentality.  Surely so many people cannot have it wrong, she might think.  It must be me.  I must somehow have it wrong.  

You are wasting your time trying to sell this "no rules" nonsense.  I'm not buying it.

Seaangel74
Seaangel74

@hellokitty If you know nothing about this religion first hand, all of your arguments are moot. One cannot even being to fathom the truth about this religion by simply reading about it on paper. 

You're assuming Truth-be-told's arguments are based on that document alone if you think that's being used as a sole source. 

lulu80mimi
lulu80mimi

@hellokitty You are so delusional......WOW.  This religion is completely fucked up and yes, you clearly don't have a clue......as you stated...no one made her believe that way - have you heard of being brainwashed your entire life???  Along with your 10-12 other siblings?? So, no don't tell me she or anyone in that religion had or has a choice....

Seaangel74
Seaangel74

@hellokitty  I have looked at many religions, including those of the Middle East, the Far East, and here at home. While people do have a right to chose their own religion and belief system (here in America anyway), I do not believe that a religion should ever dictate how and when women use their bodies. 

Furthermore, although on the outside you think that no one made her believe that way but unfortunately you do not get that option in the LLC. You are born into it, your entire family and life is there. You are raised from day one that anyone who does not believe they way they do is damned in the fires of hell for all eternity. They put such fear in people that leaving is not an option. 
The ones who do manage to get away are lucky if they are not mentally scarred for life.

Truth-be-told
Truth-be-told

@hellokitty of course people have the right to choose a reelgion, just as they have the choice to leave.   I think it is great that people had lots of kids back in the day.  It was not just for religious reasons either.  Yes, people should have children because they want so. Children are the most amazing!!!!  Women are very lucky to choose to have a large family.   The religion should not dictate how and when a women concieves.  God should.   And a woman should trust God help her decide that she can stop procreating.   It all comes down to choice.   Many relgions do not allow it, they dictate it.

hellokitty
hellokitty

@Truth-be-told @hellokitty 

wow, you make me shake my head. Have you ever looked at other religions?  have you ever looked at back in the early days...no religious ties, people just had kids and many kids. so what..if they want..let them. I think we all have right chose what religion we want to believe in. No one made her believe that way. If you were in at one time, you too would still be there I suppose killing babies.


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