Tom Horne: Not Having Guns in Schools Is "Inexcusable"

Categories: Guns
granmda-gun.jpg
awkwardfamilyphotos.com
Now that Attorney General Tom Horne's suggested response to the Newtown, Connecticut massacre of schoolchildren has been proposed at the state Legislature, he's trying to defend his idea again.

House Bill 2656 allows a school's "principal or another designee" access to a gun on school grounds, in case of an emergency, and Horne says not having any guns in schools is "inexcusable."

See also:
-Lock and Load, Lunch Lady: Bill for Gun Access in Schools Applies to Any Employee
-Tom Horne Wants Gun Access for One Trained Official at Each School

"I believe it is inexcusable for teachers, students and school staff to be undefended," Horne says in a statement issued today.

Most people would probably agree that it's nice to have a police officer (armed, obviously) at every school, and Horne agrees with that as well.

However, we're not sure that the "next best" option is to give someone in the school access to a gun, which is what Horne claims.

"It would be ideal to have an armed Police Officer in each school," Horne's statement says. "But since budget considerations make that unlikely, the next best solution is to have one person in the school trained to handle firearms, to handle emergency situations, and possessing a firearm in a secure location. This legislation will accomplish that goal, and I am grateful to Representative Stevens for his work to get this introduced at the legislature."

Remember, a police officer is, well, a police officer, who spends a considerable amount of time working to protect the school. Under Horne's proposal, the "principal or another designee" spends their day teaching kids how to use computers, or cooking chicken nuggets, or mopping the floors -- whatever their actual job with the school district is.

Additionally, the cops stationed at schools have the guns located in a convenient position -- on their hip. The "principal or another designee" has to take a key to the box that's holding a gun on the school campus, retrieve the gun, then try to stop whatever event going on at the school that called for the gun.

In that same statement from the AG's office, the bill's sponsor, Republican Representative David Stevens, says the school's administrators are "responsible for the safety of children and they should be able to defend their campuses."

We'd have to side with any teachers who thought becoming the sole person at school responsible for taking out a deranged gunman was not in the job description.

The school-gun program would be optional, so technically, it would be considered excusable to not have a gun any given school.

My Voice Nation Help
55 comments
bobby5527
bobby5527

and what caliber weapon does mr. horne propose the lucky teacher, principal,, janitor, or whoever is designated to be armed be issued? a .38 caliber or a 50 caliber. and at schools where shootings have occurred, those that have amed security are usually outgunned by the shooter. another unthought senseless plan offerred by one of many of arizona's nutcase politicians.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

Tom Horne's plan is a dud, just like him. The ideal solution would be multiple police officers assigned to each school with the sole duty of providing security. That's not going to happen. School districts are struggling to pay their staff now. Should just anyone be allowed to carry weapons in schools? No. I do think that safety standards can be established that would allow a sufficiently motivated school employee to be as prepared as an average police officer to meet an armed intruder. That is a lot more likely. As it stands now, our political "leaders" are dithering about banning certain guns, bullshitting the public about backround checks, while our schools continue to stand wide open and vulnerable.

PissOnArpaio
PissOnArpaio

MCSO employs the finest criminal available.

PissOnArpaio
PissOnArpaio

MCSO employs the finest criminal available.

PissOnArpaio
PissOnArpaio

MCSO employs the finest criminal available.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows topcommenter

Is there anyone that can say they would trust any school employee they ever dealt with to be in a possession of of gun in a school?  Teachers, lunch ladies, janitors, etc?

These people will have no where near the training of a sworn officer, even if Seagal gives them his "millions of hours on a gun range" to them in a pill!


HornyBoi should worry about keeping his mistress happy, and not getting in hit and runs until he gets removed from public office by the voters.

bill.shine
bill.shine

And, these people are going to be certified as expert sharpshooters, right, with at least 20 years of experience, and a few hundred kills to their credit?  I think not.  Not only do you have to know how to use a firearm, you also have to be really good at it -- at least, at the level of an olympic bronze medal winner.  I don't want a guy who can't hit a 3 inch target at 100 feet 99% of the time near a school with a gun.


marcy
marcy

Having Tom Horny in office is inexcusable. 

IdontRecall
IdontRecall

Seems that ELMER HORNE and the OLD FART are partners on this one, see, the Old Fart probably had a conversation with Elmer Horne about trying to somehow put some of His Posse members on some of those positions without the people knowledge. that's why the "Designee" title on the amendment, furthermore, the requirements: 1, "Be at least 24 hrs. in lenght", 2. "Be conducted in a pass or fail basis", just tailored for the Posse Clowns. What else can be expected from this WABBIT HUNTER LOONEY TOON. AGH!!DESPICABLE.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

Wow! What a bunch of old women. Maybe the old lady in the above photo will donate some testosterone for you. "Waa, I might shot my foot" "Waa this gun is too heavy" "Waa, I might break a nail" Sheesh.

RobAZ
RobAZ

Well, Horne knows he's lost the support and potential votes from Dems, Indies and the few sane Republicans left in the state but he's seen the nutjobs flock to Arpaio and Bennett like moths to a candle so, why not join them?

Only problem with that logic is he's in a state office and all the kooks in Maricopa county won't save him in a statewide race.

RobAZ
RobAZ

Well, Horne knows he's lost the support and potential votes from Dems, Indies and the few sane Republicans left in the state but he's seen the nutjobs flock to Arpaio and Bennett like moths to a candle so, why not join them?

Only problem with that logic is he's in a state office and all the kooks in Maricopa county won't save him in a statewide race.

RobAZ
RobAZ

Well, Horne knows he's lost the support and potential votes from Dems, Indies and the few sane Republicans left in the state but he's seen the nutjobs flock to Arpaio and Bennett like moths to a candle so, why not join them?

Only problem with that logic is he's in a state office and all the kooks in Maricopa county won't save him in a statewide race.

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

What I find 'inexcusable' is having a state attorney general who was seen having backed into one vehicle with another, causing damage, and then not checking for it or leaving a simple note, such as, "I may have damaged your vehicle. Please call me to discuss payment if damages did occur..." Which, of course, is what John Q. Average citizen WOULD have done if they weren't afraid of being discovered for some very nefarious reason.

However, I guess if you beat the system at a younger age you assume that it will carry through for your life. Thus, he is now fighting the charges as being 'politicially motivated'.

No shit, Mr. Attorney General.

You are an elected official living in a glass house. Don't expose your very wide posterior if you don't want people to spank your ass in public.

Someone please explain the above to Mr. Horne. I may have typed it too quickly.

robert_graham
robert_graham topcommenter

Not having guns in schools for teachers and administrators is inexcusable indeed!

eric.nelson745
eric.nelson745 topcommenter

This is pure tomfoolery. He doesn't get it that the bad guys will always have the tactical advantage. Long before that "good guy with a gun" is able to squeeze off a round, s/he will be lying dead on the floor.

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

@PissOnArpaio Please don't indict all of the employees at MCSO based on the actions of the shurf and his coterie of misfits. MCSO has many very good, professional, employees who are working their very best and providing the very best services in spite of the elected official and his miscreants.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@WhoKnows Dumb ass, I personally know four retired police officers who are current school employees. One was a SWAT officer. You are such a hand wringing twit, I wouldn't trust you with a sharp pencil.

shadeaux14
shadeaux14 topcommenter

@bill.shine Plus, you also have to be able to react UNDER FIRE and unless you have actually been shot at, you don't know exactly how you'll react.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@bill.shine Most regular police officers can't meet those standards on a bright calm day at the range. But I'll bet you are perfectly comfortable with that same police officer around you in public.

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@bill.shine  i agree. qualified and trained are different than effective. you can train anybody anything, it doesnt mean they are competent at it. and qualifying someone is not a gauge either.  bare minimal requirements can still get you qualified. the guy who graduates with the lowest scores at med school is still a doctor, that doesnt mean you want him as your primary care physician. 

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@Tommy_Collins so a guy being investigated by the Feds, hitting a car and not leaving his insurance info while having a extramarital affair, is trying to preach to us on moral obligations? whats next......is Joe going to teach a class at ASU on financial management or how to sharpen our memory?   "uh....um...uh...i dont recall"

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967 topcommenter

@Tommy_Collins

I never thought I'd see the day when you would use curse words.

Otherwise, well said.

IdontRecall
IdontRecall

Jaffy, sorry to burst Your little bubble, do You know that other states have begun to issue DRIVER LICENSES for THE DREAMERS? The domino effect has been put into motion; soon Arizona is gonna have to COMPLY no matter what that MENOPAUSIC DRUNKARD GUV has to say. I hope You get a Heart attack when this State issues the first one. fng DILDO.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows topcommenter

@jonnyquest Would YOU trust every school employee YOU ever dealt with to be armed in a school?  You seem unable to understand what I said.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@danzigsdaddy But I bet you would accept his help if you were having a heart attack.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@Tommy_Collins @jonnyquest Will you describe the firearms specific training a police office recruit undergoes? How much time is required if shoot/no shoot laws and policies are included?

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@Tommy_Collins @jonnyquest Don't get wrong Tom, I never voted for Horne and never will. He's just another political whore who can't drive worth a shit. But jeez. These nervous nellies make me wonder if they would stand by and let someone kill their own kids.@Tommy_Collins @jonnyquest

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

@danzigsdaddy Interesting you should make that comparison. Just this morning the headlines indicate the local sheriff is going to try to double his budget for jails. A couple days ago the county indicated it was in financial trouble. I suppose this means MCSO must be exempt from financial problems, right?

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

@MaskedMagician1967 Sorry, MM. I had to dumb it down so that if a staff member happened to read that sentence to our state attorney general he would be able to understand. I try to staff away from verbiage commonly referred to as profanity, but hey, shit happens, ya know? :-)

robert_graham
robert_graham topcommenter

@IdontRecall For your information, those other states such as California that issued the drivers licenses did so because they chose to not because they had to.  So therefore I hate to bust your bubble but Arizona won't be one of those other states.

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@WhoKnows @jonnyquest "every school employee" is NOT the same as "any employee". You seem to be unable to say what you mean.

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@jonnyquest  just because they train the teacher or whoever does not mean they will have tactical training too. that takes time and practice to learn, perfect and maintain. what teacher has that time  and can still teach or do their other job? i just dont think Horne has thought this through

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@jonnyquest  i am not going to say you are wrong, i am just saying that he is the last person i want treating me. the way i personally see it, is that the REAL officers are in the middle of the class, the posse is the bottom of the class, but a teacher would be the guy still in class. yes they would all have a little knowledge and be able to help, but the reliable and competent help would be the middle to upper in the graduating class. this is just my opinion though and as much as i complain about Arpaio wasting money.....i wouldnt say a damn thing negative if he were to assign it to actual officers with experience. (if he did that, i would actually be praising the guy) if a teacher is the one to be responsible for the gun, he would have to be constantly training (not like the Seagal 4 hour one time class either) to get to a competent level and then to stay at that level. if he did devote that time to that....he would not be devoting his time to teaching, he would be working his way toward being a resources officer which is not what Horne is proposing. i actually would have less reservations about this if it was a resources officer they brought in. 

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@jonnyquest  you know something else that bothers me, and this is just a personal observation. teachers do snap. kids are pretty vicious nowadays (i know, cops snap too). and maybe its paranoid, but i can see some kid pushing  the teacher who has access to the gun to a snapping point. again, this is just a personal observation. do you remember the video with the bus monitor being tormented by the kids? some kids just dont think and just like to push buttons

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

people who try to handle 2 things at one time are distracted and mess up quite often......look at texting and driving. we have proven that too many people can not handle 2 things at once and are too easily distracted. how effective would cops be if they were doing law enforcement while trying to teach a class at the same time

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@jonnyquest  Jonny, my problem with it being someone who is teaching or whatever at the school is that they will need constant training and practice. that would be more time than they would have available to do that and their other job and do both effectively. that would also be something they would not be ready to do until they already underwent training. that person would then have to devote equal time into safety and teaching at the same time. that would leave them distracted. by devoting that much time and energy into that one person you are turning them into a resources officer and that is not what Horne is proposing. if you want someone to do that job you want them to be adept at it. if they only take a one time class and then go back to teaching with only the class they took under their belt....they are not prepared. I am just saying to bring in a person with training and experience in to do it full-time and not be dividing his attention between safetry and something else

jonnyquest
jonnyquest topcommenter

@danzigsdaddy That's correct. And my point is that some police officers struggle to meet minimum standards in that controlled environment. Yet we are perfectly comfortable with them being armed in public. If an equivalent program could be established for school employees, why shouldn't we be equally comfortable?

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

shooting on a range and in a controlled environment are radically different than a real life scenario. armed gunman will not give you time to aim properly or zero in your sights. ask Seagal....he's had millions of hours of training

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@Tommy_Collins i used to show people something that would always amaze them. you have a person face one way and behind them at about 15 feet you have someone put a  silhoette. you tell the person to turn around when you say go and find the target and empty 6 rounds into it as fast as they can.  you really would be amazed where those rounds go. very few rounds make it into the target. people who thought they were proficient in firearms usually change their opinions of their skill level after that

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

@jonnyquest Sorry, Jonny. I don't have current P.O.S.T. requirements handy. I know what is required just to have a federal concealed carry permit according to LEOSA, but don't know about general minimum standards for firearms training. Each state, and in some cases, each agency, is allowed to set their own minimum hours of classroom and range training. By the way, many of my associates who are retired police officers, myself included, may not be the best choice for defense against someone like the shooter at Sandy Hook, but I would certainly be a better choice than Joe Average, I would think. Someone else posted about hitting a 3 inch target at 100 feet (33.3 yards). Most range qualification for pistols is at 25 yards and the target is a full frontal profile. It's actually fairly hard for accomplished shooters to keep the rounds in center mass.

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967 topcommenter

@danzigsdaddy

Tommy and Zigs, the county is in financial trouble BECAUSE of the mentally ill local sheriff, his needless lawsuits and his misspending of taxpayer cash. Why does the Old Fool want MORE taxpayer cash?

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

@danzigsdaddy He needs funds to fight a probable recall. I guess I don't understand why he didn't ask for another $600,000 to increase staffing for the Special Victims Unit.

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@Tommy_Collinsi just saw that.not only does he want that money, he wants double that. i guess the second amount is earmarked for misspending, or dissappearing mysteriously and without a trace

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967 topcommenter

@Tommy_Collins @MaskedMagician1967

I know. Horne was the lesser of two evils for AG Republican candidates. I still think Rotellini was the absolute best choice for the office.

IdontRecall
IdontRecall

JAFFY, in case of Arizona; it HAS TO, due to the ILLITERATE GUV is puting such a stupid fight, at the end the feds are gonna ORDER HER TO STAND DOWN AND COMPLY. I almost can hear her with her all time fucking whininng:" But....but...ah...You have to.....ah....secure the......ah, that line..... how You call it.....ah, the border. Classic GED Jan Brewsky.LOL.

Now Trending

Around The Web

From the Vault

 

Loading...