Tom Horne, Arizona AG, Wants Gun Access for One Trained Official at Each School; Says Could Avert "Another Newtown"

Categories: Guns

gun fail 1.JPG
Image: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gng3sPiJdzA
Arizona AG Tom Horne wants to give free firearms training for one school official -- and only one -- from any volunteering Arizona school, then grant that person access to a locked, secured gun on campus.

Tom Horne, Arizona's Attorney General, is pushing for a new law that would allow one trained official at each Arizona school to have access to a gun.

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The firearm would be "locked in a secure place" until needed, the AG's office says.

Lot of good it'll do there.

Under Horne's plan, the principal of the participating school, or someone else designated by the principal, would be fully trained in how to use the weapon during an emergency. The almost-armed individual would also "have adequate communication to be alerted to an emergency in any part of the school."

What a farce. Especially when the idea is to reduce the chances of a massacre like the nightmare at Sandy Hook Elementary School on December 8. Who'd be doing the alerting? Someone standing next to the locked firearm, wishing they had a key?

horne tom cropped.jpg
Tom Horne
At least the school districts wouldn't have to pay for the training. Horne is offering the services of trainees from the ranks of his own office, plus that of participating sheriffs' offices. So far, Horne says, Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu, Mohave County Sheriff Tom Sheahan and Apache County Sheriff Joe Dedman have agreed to help out.

"Training will involve not only firearms, but also 'use of force" laws, defensive tactics, judgment, simulations, and properly securing the firearm,' says a news release from Horne's office.

The free time at the gun range attended by school officials and deputies who aren't out looking for crime victims will still be much cheaper than putting cops in schools as recommended last week by the NRA.

From Horne's release:

"The ideal solution would be to have an armed Police Officer in each school. Some of our schools have such officers, referred to as School Resource Officers (SROs'). They are not only there to handle emergencies, but also make friends with the students, and the students learn that Police Officers are people one can confide in, and are not the enemy.

However, budget considerations have caused the Legislature to cut back on the SRO program. It may not be possible to afford a Police Officer in every school. In that case, the next best solution is to have one person in the school trained to handle firearms, to handle emergency situations, and possessing a firearm in a secure location. This proposal is analogous to arming pilots on planes."

Bad analogy. The reason pilots might be armed is to prevent a takeover in the cockpit, not to stop a senseless massacre in the coach section.

Horne also says his proposal is a better idea than allowing all teachers to bring guns to school, "which could create more dangers than it prevents."

We don't think he could back up that assertion with statistics, but... point taken. The image of guns poking out from every teachers' purse or briefcase isn't comforting.

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David Gowan, R-Sierra Vista, says he'll introduce legislation to further Horne's gun-in-school plan.
Horne says State Representative David Gowan, R-Sierra Vista, has agreed to sponsor legislation to kick-start the plan.

The AG is fishing for public input on this one, so we'll put it to you in a poll:



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52 comments
comrade
comrade

It would be better if this criminal tell his teacher the Old Fart to do his job, assigning some of the "Posse" members to patrol around the Schools., do something for the community instead of terrorizing dishwashers, janitors,etc....................ohhh shit ,I forgot that some of the posse possess a rap sheet themselves , maybe it'd be worse, my bad.

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967

Just what we need: Another do-nothing bill that involves guns on campus (remember Ron Gould's bullshit bill regarding guns on campus?)


At the rate Arizona's going, there'll be another shootout similar to the one at the O.K. Corral in Tombstone in 1881. And this ain't the Old West anymore. 

Tom "Banned for Life by the SEC" Horne is attempting to play politics with a sensitive issue. It is best if he avoids this one by crying "conflict of interest", which is what he does every single time an issue under his jurisdiction pops up. 

naoma
naoma

True all.  But, someone with an assault weapon will probably fire it a few times before they are 

killed  And, an armed person at the entrance to the school might be a good plan.  

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

Obviously, having the gun locked away worthless in a safe would be idiotic, but I really don't see a problem with having an armed officer on campus at all times.  Even today most schools have an armed police resource officer who stops by a couple times a week, so why not just make that a permanent position?  Elementary school aged children are often the targets of other predators beyond deranged madmen like the Sandy Hook killer, it just makes sense to have a permanent police presence there.  My local Bank branch in a quiet shopping center in safe part of the city has a full time armed security guard on duty, but my child's elementary school that has over 500 students does not have a single individual responsible for external security? Talk about skewed priorities. 

naoma
naoma

Well, if one teacher at the Newtown shooting had a gun, they'd be dead.  The killer had an assault weapon and 2 other weapons.  No one stands a chance against that much gun power.

dave.baragona
dave.baragona

Is Tom Horne aware that they had armed security guards on the campus at Columbine when that mass shooting occurred? They also had armed security guards on the campus at Virginia Tech when that mass shooting occurred.

Don't fool yourself into thinking this will solve the whole problem....

Critical
Critical

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms — much like the Right of Free Speech —
is not negotiable. Its protections are not subject to the whims of
majority opinion, nor the screaming demands of hyperventilating media
personalities. All the social media trolls and opinion writers in the
world can comment all they want on the Second Amendment, yet the
individual right to keep and bear arms remains immutable.
Just like the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment is not negotiable.
No Governor, Senator or President has any power whatsoever to banish
the Second Amendment, and any who attempt to oppose it only brand
themselves as criminal traitors to the United States of America. Any
active effort to eradicate the Second Amendment outside of law — without
going through the proper process of state ratification for
Constitutional amendments — is, by definition, an act of sedition against the United States of America and its people.
Ironically, many who viciously attack the Second Amendment do so by
invoking their free speech protections under the First Amendment. Yet
they seem blind to the realization that the First Amendment itself is
only made possible by the Second Amendment which balances power between
the People and the government, ensuring that the individual right to
bear arms serves as a check and balance against the monopoly of violence
every government inherently seeks.
Disarmament of the populace is always the first step to depriving
them of their civil rights and human rights. Without the right to bear
arms, there is no right to free speech, no right to due process, no
right to trial by jury and certainly no right to be secured against
unreasonable search and seizure. A government with a monopoly of force
is a government that respects no boundaries and honors no limits.

Critical
Critical

Tom Horne should be publicly hung in the streets like he would have been 200 years ago for his abuse of his roles in the Arizona Department of Education Superintendent of Public Instruction from 2003 to 2011, and his current role as AG (how he ever got elected after what he did to our children's education system is beyond me).


As far as guns, best believe they want to take them: www.un.org/disarmament

Also, best believe Obama and the minions will bow to the UN.  They know how many legal firearms are in the US but we aren't allowed to know how many "weapons of peace" they have, interesting.

comrade
comrade

This fucking criminal shouldn't even be making suggestions, fucking Old Fart should be arresting him. So much for the RULE OF LAW that they refer to. But since all the old farts belong to the same kkk circle,that does not apply to them.

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

Tom Horne. Dumbass.

He's already lost any chance at running for governor and it's not likely even the Repubs will want him to run for state AG again...

Maybe he should concentrate on taking care of prosecution of some local corrupt officials. Nah... that would be a conflict of interest.

royalphoenix
royalphoenix

When is his hit and run trial starting ? Looks like the NRA will be picking up his legal fees. peace

allanbartlett
allanbartlett

Lock up horne's penis. Hide it in arpaios asshole.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

Horny boy was just on Ch 12.  He was so confused that he asked Resnick out for a date when asked about the Gun Show Loophole and the three big gun shows in AZ next month,

Bort-LongYear
Bort-LongYear

Seriously TomHornyBoy, what good is a locked up gun, in the principles office when he is taking a dump, eatin lunch across campus, or on a sick day?  It is clear you didn't consult any L.E. officers with tactical sense when you made up this lousy proposal; clearly a school administrator, PC correct B.S. proposal.  Get real Tom H.B., if you are gonna arm some school adminstrators select a minimum of 5--make rule at least two on duty, on-campus all day during while classes are in.  Make them qualify at least twice a year with the same standards as L.E. officers.  Have them carry concealed on their person; otherwise you are just floating B.S. in the wind.  I have no doubt the courage of our teachers when pressed into action--that has been proven time and again, but don't set them up for failure.  


Bort-LongYear
Bort-LongYear

Nothing more than a politician trying to look pro-active.  Hey HornDog-how about training at least 5x school officials make them qualify once a quarter like most police officers and have them carry concealed while at work on-duty.  If we can trust them with our kids---oh, shit I forgot we can't even trust them withour kids for some reason they always want to sex them up.  Oh, shit, Sorry Tom sore subject with you.  

oybay
oybay

@phoenixnewtimes My state continues to embarass me with bad ideas. Who is the armed teacher on duty today?

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

I bet HornyBoi wants to arm that gym teacher that loved to watch him shower.  

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

Who will prevent Tom Horneyboy from performing another hit and run with his mistress over lunch?

hkitty64
hkitty64

@justamexican They act like its comparable to having people CPR trained. Pretty much the exact opposite.

hkitty64
hkitty64

@justamexican I am a teacher and I love and trust my colleagues, but firearms? Um, sorry. No.

PRO2ndAmendment
PRO2ndAmendment

Have the gun locked up?  Horrible idea.  We need to place military vets with proper and continuous firearm training that have undergone thorough psychological examination (and on a continuous basis) in these positions and have them armed at all times.  Having the weapon locked up is counteractive. 

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

@naoma Columbine had TWO armed guards, and VA Tech had an entire armed campus police force.


Will Hornyboy pay the teachers for taking on the additional responsibilities?  Heck no!

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@naoma You are forgetting the fact that the kind of person who does something like Newtown is a fundamental coward who immediately killed himself when the police showed up.  There was another shooting with an assault rifle in Oregon the weekend before where the shooter immediately killed himself when an armed citizen confronted him with a handgun.  If these people wanted to "die in a blaze of glory" they would attack police stations, not undefended elementary schools.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@dave.baragona That is actually not true.  Columbine had one armed police resource officer who was not on campus at the time of the shooting, he was in the neighborhood nearby.  Many have speculated that the Columbine shooters attacked at the time they did because they knew his routine.

dave.baragona
dave.baragona

@Critical "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms — much like the Right of Free Speech —
is not negotiable."

This is true....

What IS NEGOTIABLE  is what "type" of arms. If not, Howitzers, Rocket Launchers and Weapons-Grade Plutonium would all be legal under the 2nd Amendment.

Let's get this straight.... 

The majority of Americans are NOT for taking away our right to bear arms.  Neither is Obama or any of the liberal Democrats.

What the majority of Americans "are" for (and it is not a violation of the 2nd Amendment) is to limit the legal purchasing of "unreasonable" military-grade weapons, capable of mass destruction.

HaddieNuff
HaddieNuff

@Critical The Supreme Court has already said the 2nd Amendment right to 'keep and bear arms' is not unlimited, and legislation regulating commercial sale of firearms and/or bans on carrying a firearm into 'sensitive areas' does not violate 2nd Amendment rights.

I suggest you read the majority opinion (written by Justice Antonin Scalia) in the 2008 decision handed down in District of Columbia v Heller.  Pay particular attention to Section III.  The entire decision is long, but well worth the time spent reading it, as it will clarify or help with understanding the 2nd Amendment rights we have as US citizens.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

@Critical How about you go into a crowded theater and yell fire.  You'll see how far your freedom of speech takes you.

Ever heard of "libel"?  Seems that's a regulation on freedom of speech too.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

@Critical Care to tell us exactly what "well regulated militia" you are a member of?

You know that today you can't buy black powder legally without a permit from the ATF?  That is the type of "arms" the 2nd is based on.  And today, BP is REGULATED!  Deal with it!

Tommy_Collins
Tommy_Collins

@royalphoenix January 18th, I think, is the next hearing. Which likely will be continued for yet another ambiguous reason.

justamexican
justamexican

@hkitty64 I know a few educators. I don't want them in any gun battles. Ever.

PRO2ndAmendment
PRO2ndAmendment

By the way, Obama and the elitists all send their children to schools with armed security.  The elitists also have armed security for themselves.  This whole weapon ban is aimed at disarming the average law abiding citizen.  236 years prove that law enforcement cannot handle the criminals.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@WhoKnows @naoma That is completely untrue.  This comes directly from Wikipedia:

"A Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy, Neil Gardner, was assigned to the high school as a full-time uniformed and armed school resource officer. Gardner usually ate lunch with students in the cafeteria, but on April 20 he was eating lunch in his patrol car at the northwest corner of the campus, watching students in the Smokers' Pit in Clement Park

At 11:22, the custodian called Deputy Gardner on the school radio, requesting assistance in the Senior parking lot. The only paved route took him around the school to the east and south on Pierce Street, where, at 11:23 he heard on his police radio that a female was down, struck by a car, he assumed. He turned on his lights and siren. While exiting his patrol car in the Senior lot at 11:24, he heard another call on the school radio, "Neil, there's a shooter in the school". Harris, at the West Entrance, immediately fired his rifle at Gardner, who was sixty yards away. Gardner returned fire with his service pistol."

This is from the CNN article Wikipedia references:

"Jefferson County Sheriff’s Deputy Neil Gardner soon would complete his second year as the uniformed community resource officer assigned to Columbine High School. Gardner, a 15-year veteran of the Sheriff’s Office, normally ate his lunch with the students in the cafeteria during first lunch period. His car would have been parked in his “normal spot” in front of the cafeteria doors - between the junior and senior parking lots.

On April 20, however, Deputy Gardner and campus supervisor Andy Marton, an unarmed school security officer employed by the school district, were eating lunch in Gardner’s patrol car. They were monitoring students in the “Smokers’ Pit,” a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.

Gardner had just finished his lunch when he received a call over the school’s radio from a custodian. “Neil,” called the custodian in a panicked voice, “I need you in the back lot!”"

%s

I have never found any other mention of another armed security officer assigned to the school, if you have some evidence otherwise I would like to see it.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@WhoKnows @Critical Actually the Supreme Court has frequently been asked to interpret the language in the 2nd amendment and the "well regulated-militia" part has been identified as a rationale, not a specific regulation. Since the bill of rights applies to ALL people this means that membership in a militia is not a requirement to bear arms. In other words, it does not specify that the right to bear arms applies only to people in militias.

allanbartlett
allanbartlett

@PRO2ndAmendment it should un-arm you, only you.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@WhoKnows @maxonepercent Apparently you cannot read.  The armed guard was off campus eating lunch.  This was unusual because normally he would be in the cafeteria and his patrol car would be parked directly in front of the building.  It is not a coincidence that the Columbine shooters chose that time to attack. What good is an armed officer if they are not on campus?

Check this story out:

"The student's attack began with a shotgun blast through the windows of a California high school. Rich Agundez, the El Cajon policeman assigned to the school, felt his mind shift into overdrive.

People yelled at him amid the chaos but he didn't hear. He experienced "a tunnel vision of concentration."

While two teachers and three students were injured when the glass shattered in the 2001 attack on Granite Hills High School, Agundez confronted the assailant and wounded him before he could get inside the school and use his second weapon, a handgun."

http://news.yahoo.com/experts-trained-police-needed-school-security-091515160--politics.html

Armed guards save lives more often than not, it is common sense really.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows topcommenter

@maxonepercent So, if the security person is in a different building taking a crap, but on campus, he's not really there?  So a HS needs what, 100 armed guards to handle all cases of crapping and eating lunch, etc??

naoma
naoma

@WhoKnows   I was in such a hurry to answer that I  meant "you" -- not YOUR.  And, I am a proofreader???

WhoKnows
WhoKnows topcommenter

@maxonepercent @WhoKnows @dave.baragona So max, if the armed guard in the school was in the toilet taking a crap he's not really on campus???  That's what you're saying!  He was in the parking lot!

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@WhoKnows @maxonepercent @dave.baragona Also, in regard to Virginia Tech, it is asinine to compare a university with an enrollment of 30,000 adults to an elementary school with 500 to 700 children, the security aspects couldn't be more different.  The biggest issue with both the Virginia Tech and Tucson shootings were massive failures on the part of Higher Ed institutions and the local mental health systems.  Both shooters displayed significant mental illnesses and psychiatric problems in higher ed classes well before they attacked anyone, and in both cases the institutions neglected to report them to the authorities.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

@WhoKnows @maxonepercent @dave.baragona   Incorrect.  This comes directly from Wikipedia:

"A Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy, Neil Gardner, was assigned to the high school as a full-time uniformed and armed school resource officer. Gardner usually ate lunch with students in the cafeteria, but on April 20 he was eating lunch in his patrol car at the northwest corner of the campus, watching students in the Smokers' Pit in Clement Park

At 11:22, the custodian called Deputy Gardner on the school radio, requesting assistance in the Senior parking lot. The only paved route took him around the school to the east and south on Pierce Street, where, at 11:23 he heard on his police radio that a female was down, struck by a car, he assumed. He turned on his lights and siren. While exiting his patrol car in the Senior lot at 11:24, he heard another call on the school radio, "Neil, there's a shooter in the school". Harris, at the West Entrance, immediately fired his rifle at Gardner, who was sixty yards away. Gardner returned fire with his service pistol."

This is from the CNN article Wikipedia references:

"Jefferson County Sheriff’s Deputy Neil Gardner soon would complete his second year as the uniformed community resource officer assigned to Columbine High School. Gardner, a 15-year veteran of the Sheriff’s Office, normally ate his lunch with the students in the cafeteria during first lunch period. His car would have been parked in his “normal spot” in front of the cafeteria doors - between the junior and senior parking lots.

On April 20, however, Deputy Gardner and campus supervisor Andy Marton, an unarmed school security officer employed by the school district, were eating lunch in Gardner’s patrol car. They were monitoring students in the “Smokers’ Pit,” a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.

Gardner had just finished his lunch when he received a call over the school’s radio from a custodian. “Neil,” called the custodian in a panicked voice, “I need you in the back lot!”"

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

I have never found any other mention of another armed security officer assigned to the school, if you have some evidence otherwise I would like to see it.



WhoKnows
WhoKnows

@PRO2ndAmendment Sure Jaffy, sure.  Exact same writing style and the same usage of words and terms.


Take your Whopper and shove it Jaffy!

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