El Mirage Officials Withholding Accident Stats at Intersection with Speed Camera Until After Election, Despite Councilman's Request for Data

Redflex camera.jpg
El Mirage has installed cameras thorughout the city to catch drivers speeding.
El Mirage's appointed and elected city officials are not releasing accident data for an intersection with a speed camera -- until after the election.

That, despite repeated requests by El Mirage City Councilman Jim McPhetres for those statistics.

As has been the case with the photo enforcement cameras across the state, there has been consternation in this community about the ones officials have peppered throughout the city.

One camera is placed at the intersection of Primrose Street and (Grand Avenue) U.S. 60, a state route that cuts through the city and fast-tracks drivers to popular destinations such as Wickenburg and Las Vegas.

Motorists buzzing along the divided highway with a 45 mph speed limit can get caught on camera for going 11 mph over the posted limit. El Mirage gets to collect the fines, and RedFlex, the private company that installs the cameras, of course, also gets a cut of the booty.

McPhetres wanted to know how many accidents occurred at the intersection before the camera went in, and how many since it's been in place.

After McPhetres request for info, Mook and Vice Mayor David Shapera ask for the same thing. They, along with City Manager Spencer Isom decided that the information would be presented to everyone, at the same time, during their first meeting in September.

The election is on August 28.

Isom tells New Times there's "no story here, unless you manufacture one."

And he adds that they're giving the information to everyone, at the same time "as doing so is the most efficient use of Police personnel's time."

He's right. We're not manufacturing anything. We have the e-mails going back and forth, including the one from the police chief to McPhetres telling him that a police analyst had already prepared a report on the accidents at the intersection.

All he had to do was review it, and hand it over to McPhetres.

But that never happened.

This isn't sensitive information that rises to the level of such secrecy.

Mook and company preached heavily that those cameras would increase public safety. Shapera is running for re-election, along with Mook's other followers -- Councilman Lynn Selby and Councilman Roy Delgado.

McPhetres, not surprisingly, is the odd-man out on the City Council -- asking too many questions and expecting too many answers, as far as his colleagues are concerned.
Shapera says McPhetres is wasting thousands of dollars by asking too many questions

(Up until recently, the cameras also captured red-light runners, but the city shut down that program without offering any explanations. More on that later.)

Here's what we know:

On July 20, a Friday, McPhetres asked Police Chief Steve Campbell for those accident statistics at the intersection.

The same day, the chief replied: "Sure. Will Monday or Tuesday be ok?"

McPhetres never got any stats.

On July 24, he repeated his request to Campbell: "Any idea on when I might see the crash figures for this intersection for the period of time the cameras have been installed?"

That same day, Campbell apologized to McPhetres, stating that he "was out of the office most of the day and have not reviewed my analyst's report. I will complete the review in the a.m."

The following day, (July 25), Mayor Mook and Vice Mayor Shapera asked City Manager Spensor Isom for the same accident information -- but told him they wanted it presented at a meeting ... in September.

On July 27, McPhetres again repeated his request.

That same day, Isom e-mailed the chief: "I understand that you have had a request for some of the information from a third member of council. I request you gather all pertinent information for a single presentation to the Council as a whole during the first meeting in September."

A sheepish chief replied to McPhetres on July 31: "Sir, I wish I could give you an absolute answer on that right now, but I can't. At the present time we are still drawing down the data. We have been asked to present the findings to all at the same time once all the data is researched and a report is composed."

Wait a sec ... the chief had already told the councilman eight days earlier that the analyst's report was completed, he just hadn't reviewed it.



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43 comments
arizonacitizen
arizonacitizen

Hey  I guess you got your information wrong. This is not a young man, he is a 47 year old convicted felon. Guadalupe Davila wasn't helping the community he was helping himself. He stole money that was meant for the children. You seem to know alot about Linda Kleiner, have you ever talked to her or did you get your information from this convicted felon and cheat. Maybe you should be thanking her for calling him out. I think you owe her a "I am sorry"

tandfriends1234
tandfriends1234

I had the pleasure to mee the Pastor of the little white church on el Mirage Rd.  He is a great young man and he really loves his calling and the people love him, especially the kids.  His service was beautiful and the message was about serving one another.   I congratulated him for his efforts to rebuild and remodel the church and for making an impact in el mirage.  he told me that it was his privilege to help and serve the community.  I see the efforts of our city officals and their commitment to help organization like the churches.  When we work together we can accomplish a lot.  so why does the group of linda kleiner continue to cause problems.  I hear that her family is a bunch of bums and unemployed like she is.  let her trash be trash like she is,  

tandfriends1234
tandfriends1234

i have lived in el mirage all of my life (62 years) and i have seen a lot of people come and go and even the city elected officials.  I remember our little town and how we the hispanic people held it all together without anyones help.  i have been seeing lately a lot of improvements around town and even a local church on el mirage rd has gone out of their efforts to make the building look great.  Last week I was inquiring about that little church at the Dysart Community Center and I was told that the Pastor there has been working very hard in the community and with the kids. I attend the local Catholic Church in town and I was impressed by the complete remodel of the church on el mirage rd.  If a little church can be this influential to the community and if our elected city officials  can continue to work with the community, I as a life long resident I can only see great things on the horizon.    My worry is idiots and assholes like the group led by this fat and disgusting person named Linda Kleiner.  Many residents that I know have told my wife and I of this person and how she uses people to create problems within our town. This crazy person has not lived in El Mirage since the beginning and she has no right to lie about our town.  Who is she? What are credentials?  What has she given to the town and the people? What is her experience and background? What is her family like? What are her adult kids like?  It seems like she likes to put down our town and make us the hispanic people look like we are poor and worthless.  She doesn't know us and how our kids are now in college educating themselves to help our town get even better. What has her adult kids done for the community and what has been her adult kids great contributions to our town? and or how have they helped the community.  We like the improvements and the way the city is moving forward and yes there is always things that need to be done first in our town, like the helping of the older homes, the children, the seniors and the older buildings.  It is hard to get our needs taken care all at once but I hope the city has a plan for the people first.  I hope that our Mayor and our city officals remember that the people come first. This crazy person  Linda, only looks out for herself and her family.  I will attend the little white church this week with my family and hopefully I can meet the Pastor.  I want to congratulate him for his tremendous tenacity to lead in our town by his calling to help everyone.  My neighbors tell me that their kids walk five streets down from the church just to come to a learning program that is free of charge to any kid.  Maybe the idiots that only have crap to say about our town could learn from leaders like this and us the real hard working residents of this town.  So to this Linda lady, get a job and get off your big ass and help those that are working hard to clean up and help rebuild our town. If she has any CHARACTER, maybe she can post her credentials and a list things that she has personally done to help our community.  Who in the hell is she?  We don't need her filth and bs.

El Mirage resident since birth. married man to my wife whom is also a life long resident of el mirage, father of 4 kids, one graduating from Grand Canyon University with a Degree in Child Psychology. 

taxintim
taxintim

   The real story is that Arizona's definition of an intersection is contrary to Federal Law. The Federal definition of the beginning of an intersection is the first cross walk line (the first one a driver would cross).  The reason for this is it is not desirable or safe to have cars stopped at the red light on top of the crosswalk.

   Once a car has entered the crosswalk it must clear said crooswalk for the pedestrians at the end of the green light cycle. Imagine children on the way to school meandering through stopped traffic while attempting to stay in a crosswalk.  

   The Cities participating in this program have been duped by the photo citation companies to endanger children and pedestrians solely for the pursuit of profit.  

   Now they hide the truth. Had enough?

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

Well since the Police Department will not pull it themselves, I did it for you.  Lets see how long they leave this information up on the internet before it disappears.  But I screen captured it all so I can prove the data is/was there if anyone wants proof.  This also shows just how clueless the city and police leadership are.  They even post the information as a link on their website.  If you really want to cover up something, you should do it right.  I pulled the last 6 months of traffic accidents for the intersection of Grand ave and Primrose where the camera is that the mayor and PD and city manager have been saying is so dangerous.  In the last 6 months, there have been 8 accidents at that specific intersection. All were accidents with no injuries and they occurred on 3/23, 4/2, 5/24, 5/29, 6/4, 6/23, 7/9, and 7/19.  None in the last month.  Now lets see how fast they pull the information off of the internet because the PD controls what information gets reported to this site, but if you go to www.raidsonline.com you can get this information for El Mirage and when you pull up the map, click on data grid and it can be sorted etc.  As I said I have a copy of the data so if they do pull it mysteriously after I am sure one of their cronies will tell them about it, I can prove it was there and it will just prove how bad this group is because they do not want you to know the radar is for money only and not safety.  So come on Chief, City Manager, Council, Mayor.  Release it to McPhetres right away.  It took me about 3 minutes to get this info.  I am sure the high quality people you have can get it just as fast from their system.  We now know from that website you post data to that there were only 8 accidents in 6 months and none had injuries. 

arizona1234
arizona1234

Thanks to everyone who has requested the information. The response has been great and I am glad to provide it. As I have said to everyone who has responded, this is all information that is open to the public. 

arizona1234
arizona1234

I refuse to talk with you anymore. If you are so right and I am so wrong then have the guts to use your real name and stop hiding. Anyone out there who wants the documents to back up what I am saying can email me at arizona1234@cox.net and I will provide them. 

arizona1234
arizona1234

Roy Delgado did not do anything by himself it was done by the council and Roger was part of the team that brought Aarons, Valero and Auto Zone in. We have had a rainy day fund since 2003. If he was such a part of the city planning why did he sue the city for the council not including in city business and get a $45,000.00 payout

arizona1234
arizona1234

Your right Alice Oritz was on the council during a dark time in our city. However it was not Alice who was leading the city alone, At the top we had Mayor Roy Delgado. Under his leadership we went deep into debt and had uncontrolled growth. Now 12 years later here he is again running for reelection. What has he done for us now...higher water rates,higher trash rates,higher sewer rates and higher taxes. He is also part of the group who didn't tell the whole truth in the bond election about how much the YMCA would cost. The leaders including Mayor Mook and as you all say the best city manager we have ever had were very slick in the wording you put out the citizens. You all gave the citizens the impression that the total cost would be $2.5 million to build and furnish the YMCA, but what you were really saying was that was all you were going to be able to borrow on a bond, not the total cost. I commend you for being able to misrepresent the true fact to the public with a straight face. But as all twisted facts, the truth does come out at some point. As you said no one will be turned away from the YMCA, no you can't do that, they just wont be able to join if they can't pay the membership.Again I commend you for being so gifted in twisting the true facts in such a manner. Before you say I am lazy and can't take my family to a movie let me say I am not lazy, as I have to spend hours looking over all the shady things you all want to and have done to the citizens since you took office. As for the movies I did take my family to the movies to see Brave (don't take small kids). Thank you for being so concerned about me. After my illness I can tell you I am felling fine.

jcwconsult
jcwconsult

The rea$on$ citie$ u$e $peed camera$ are obviou$ to mo$t ob$erver$.

 

The reasons to withhold the data on the safety results are equally obvious. It is very likely that there have been no safety improvements, and perhaps safety is actually lower.

 

If there are no significant safety results, then every elected and appointed official who ever supported the camera program needs to be replaced. Those responsible for withholding the information need to be fired for not releasing the data on a timely basis.

 

James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, Ann Arbor, MI

milman69
milman69

Of course they will not release it.  It will prove what people have been saying all along.  It is strictly a moneymaker and has nothing  to do with public safety.  How do you think they justified hiring 5 or 6 more people?  If the analyst can not pull that data in 5 minutes, then the department needs a new analyst.  The system most police out here use allows you to search for traffic accidents within a radius and not only will it list them, it will also map them for the analyst.  Isn't this public information that is readily available?  Isn't this punishable under the public records request laws?  When will the citizens of El Mirage wake up and vote all the incumbents out this election?  Just remember it takes 50% plus 1 to elect them without a run off.  You can select up to three names, but you do not have to select three.  You can use  one or two votes for the non-incumbents and not vote the third vote.  It does not invalidate the ballot unless you go over three so if you want change, do not waste your vote on those you do not want in office.

arizona1234
arizona1234

We are not trying to make the three councilmen look bad. They are doing a good job themselves. I will take Councilman McPhetres ideas any time. Of the 205 or so votes this council has made Councilman McPhetres has only voted no when it involved raising taxes,fees and putting the city clerk and attorney under the city manager. So I guess if he is odd man out so are the rest of them. Can't you understand that the city does not belong to just the few of you and that if a person does not agree with you they are not a nut job. The bond only passed by three votes so you all do not have a mandate. Please act like grown ups and as I said stop hiding behind a fake name. Man up Shapera, Selby and Delgado and speak up for yourselves.

desertrat
desertrat

The real story is that we never hear from the three people who are running for reelection, Shapera, Selby and Delgado. Come on men speak up ,defend yourself. Shapera you say that there is a study done in Arizona that shows cameras help save lives, then great where is it publish it here so we can all see it. I for one am all for saving lives. It seems that we have a police department that is frozen with fear. Politicians are running our police department telling them what they can do and not do, citizens of El Mirage beware this is very scary. There was a politician in Germany who had total control of the police and we all know where that lead.

Jason Roberts
Jason Roberts

They are probably making sure these 'stats' are not biased.

desertrat
desertrat

Certain comments which are baseless libelous statements about restraining orders & hiding etc. are from "pussies".  This vile sewer trash disseminates and perpetuates this swill to distract from the facts.  These retarded comments are from the gutless low life and their short sighted mindless minds.  This city has nothing to be proud of.  Mook has her puppet Isom lie and she swears to it.  This is nothing more than a "shell" game.  "The tree rots from the top down".  These city officials make anyone want to puke, and you know what you do with puke... flush it !

arizona1234
arizona1234

Lets talk about the facts.  In October of 2010 Mook and the People of El Mirge fought to take the city attorney and the city clerk out from under the power of BJ Cornwall and place them under the council. They wanted this because they said that he had to much power and they wanted more transparency. The old council under Michelle Kern did just that. Then low and behold in April of 2011 when Mook and her gang took power they put the city attorney and city clerk under the city manager again. So what do we have, people who wait months for public records requests and a city attorney and clerk who can't do their jobs for fear of being fired. Come clean and say who you are lets have a grownup conversation, because right now you look like a school yard bully.

proelmirage
proelmirage

Linda, now that other post has me wondering if you have requested an early ballot or if you will still be in hiding and miss the polls? If thebusinesses follow through will this be the second restraining order or third?

proelmirage
proelmirage

Monica, I would think that someone who is being paid to report the truth would know that August is NOT the electon.  August is merely the primary to determine whose names will be on the ballot for the ELECTION in November.  There is a difference between a primary and an election in case you didn't know.  I would expect McPheters to be confused by such technical terms but I would expect you to know the difference. 

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

I think they have proven time and again that cameras do not help make intersections, OR highways after and cause delays, accidents and generally cost the government more money than they are worth. Screw the private companies that wanna make millions off of us.

 

arizona1234
arizona1234

My name is Linda Kleiner. I am asking the other side of this issue to also use their real names and not do what they have been dong in these blogs under made up names. If you feel that you are right then have the guts to stand up and say so. This part of Grand Ave and Primrose according to states the city provided had 39 accidents from June 2008 to July 2011. According to the Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG)  there were about 42,000,000 autos that passed by. during this time If you do the math that's a 1 in a million chance of having an accident, pretty safe bet you won't have a crash. That's why you didn't do an official crash study because you knew Mayor Mook and  Dr.Isom that you could not make a good case for the camera other then a money grab. Time to answer the people is NOW not in September. You are betting that the citizens don't care,are nut jobs or just plain stupid ,well as the vice mayor says we will see in the next election.

woefatcat
woefatcat

I think  "There is nothing further to report at this time." translates to "Uhm, Fuck You."

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @badnewsinem

 Oh yea.  About that A1 rating.  They sold out the citizen homeowners of El MIrage so get ready for property taxes to continue to skyrocket with this group.  They got the rating because of an unlimited property tax pledge.  I got this from http://arizona.municipalbonds.com/bonds/moodys_report/19160/.

 

NEW YORK, July 02, 2012 --Moody's Investors Service has assigned an initial A1 rating to the City of El Mirage, Arizona's General Obligation and Refunding Bonds Series 2012. The current offering is secured by an unlimited property tax pledge. Proceeds from this issue will refund a portion of the city's Series 2004 G.O. bonds and the new money portion will be used for construction of a recreational facility, police facilities, and street and highway improvements...

tiredofitall
tiredofitall

 @badnewsinem

 And the children and grandchildren of the current residents will be paying for the millions of dollars this crew has borrowed as well so what is your point?   They have borrowed more than they did for the wastewater plant.  And take a look at the approved el mirage budget.  The tax rate has gone up significantly this year.  Yes the levy is only up about 2-3% based on the approved budget but the rate to increase the levy is up significantly.  Think there was another post on this so may want to get the facts straight.

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @arizona1234

 When less than 10% of all voters approved the bond, it does not make it that great of a victory.

proelmirage
proelmirage

Since you are saying that we never hear from Selby, Shapera and Delgado and they should speak up and defend themselves, I am then assuming that either Roger or Mary or both are on this blog and speaking up.  How sad if that  is true since some of the language being used here should never be used even in private..  And making leaps from Chief  Campbell honoring a request from the Mayor to the carnage of Hitler is absolutely absurd and pathetic.

sayitisntso
sayitisntso

 @desertrat

 That is one expensive puppet based on the salary the citizens are paying him.

proelmirage
proelmirage

 @arizona1234 You're correct.  It was necessary to remove the city clerk and the city attorney from under BJ because he was ruining this city.  In less than 2 years with the new council we have gone from being in a fiscal crisis to having a very nice contingency fund for emergencies.  The city clerk and city attorney can now be under Dr Isom again because he is the best City Manager we have ever had.  The people of El Mirage no longer need to hang their heads in front of other west valley citizens.  El Mirage is once again a place to be proud of and we don't need to spend $300,000 a year on a PR firm.  All we needed was a council that will work together and work for the best for El Mirage.

monica-alonzo
monica-alonzo

 @proelmirageYou might benefit from checking out a page on El Mirage's website that outlines the details of both the primary election in August and the general election in November. I even created a link to make it easy for you and everyone else. http://media.phoenixnewtimes.com/8084136.0.pdf

 

It's important that the electorate be informed -- not just about the candidates and their political views and vision for the city -- but about the basic election process.

 

From the city's page:

 

>The next regularly scheduled City Election is August 2012 and if necessary, a run-off Election will be held in November 2012.

>There is the possibility that all seats will be filled at the August 28, 2012 Primary and no General Election will be held in November 6, 2012 for local candidates.

>If any candidate receives 50% of the number of ballots cast plus 1 vote, that candidate is deemed elected. If no candidate received 50%+ or in case of a tie, the candidates with the highest vote totals (not elected) will be placed on the November 2012 General Ballot.

>The run-off (if required) ballot for the November 2012 election will contain at least one more candidate’s name than there are openings on Council.

>All candidates elected in 2012 will assume office in December 2012."

 

I think it's a shame when people aren't informed, and even worse, when they repeat ignorant statements as though they were fact. I hope this helps you.

 

And if you are an elected official, the spouse of an elected official or a city employee -- urge those in leadership roles to err on the side of transparency, to engage with the community. Some here have said that residents don't care -- it's a leader's job to make them care.

 

Show me community with apathetic voters and I'll show you a community with bad leaders.

proelmirage
proelmirage

 @arizona1234 Linda, I hate to say this but if you look at election statistics most of the citizens don't care.  The percentage of people who actually come out to vote is woefully low.  BTW,that means not good. :) 

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @badnewsinem  @arizona1234

 Neither did Delgado or most anyone else on the council.  You had a position that worked in the previous city manager's office (forgot the title but think the person's name was Scott something) that did most of the legwork to get them, shell, walmart, and valero, etc into the city.  Most of the new businesses were in the works several years ago before this current council was seated.

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @badnewsinem  @arizona1234

 Oh, by the way,  the debt was not 100% voter approved.  They voted on only 8.5 mil of the 11.5 mil that they needed for the police department and the YMCA.  And if I remember right, less than 10% of the total registered voters approved it so not even close to a majority of citizens at all. The voters did not get to vote on the additional 3 million so stop putting out things that are not true.

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @badnewsinem  @arizona1234

 Hey badnews.  There have been two dogs paid for bny local HOA's and had nothing to do with the council.  What happened to the first dog? 

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @badnewsinem  @arizona1234

 Maybe he does understand.  Maybe he does realize they are nickel and diming the citizens to death,   Maybe he sees how this group is bankrupting the city.  Maybe he is the only one with the backbone to go against the mayor.  When has any of the other 5 voted against any tax increase or against the mayor?  Kind of fitting that all three of their names are on the same signs.  You only get one vote that way by voting for them because they will not stand up to the mayor.  Do you want 2-3 voices on the council (vote out the incumbents) or do you want just one vote from the three incumbents?  Vote them out people and save the city some money.

arizona1234
arizona1234

 @proelmirage The city was not in a fiscal crisis as BJ and Delgado said. In fact the city had a $6,000,000 contingency fund as has been the case since 2003 when it was set up to protect the rate we get on bonds. So you say it is a nice fund for emergencies, while the city manager said that he could use it to build the YMCA, now when did the building of a YMCA become an emergency. At the council meeting the mayor said that indeed this fund now has $13 million. So if the city is so rich then why did we do a bond to burden the taxpayers any further? Why didn't we just pay cash for the $5.5 million to build the YMCA. If we take a loan for $2.5 million that has an interest payment of $2.2 million over 30 years, that becomes a $4.7 million debt now add $3 million cash that makes the YMCA a $7.7 million building. So if the YMCA is so important to the city then why don't we save the taxpayers the $2.2 million in interest and pay cash and be done with it as the mayor likes to say.

proelmirage
proelmirage

 @monica-alonzo  @proelmirage Monica, I made the comment about apathetic voters and I stand by it.  Look at the national election numbers as well.  Most americans are willing to b*tch on blogs but will not take 5 minutes out of their time to vote.  When was the last time Linda Kleiner or Roger Cleveland attended a City Council meeting?  They, like you, get one side of the story from Jim.  One side of the story never tells all of it.  At least Mary Koestner has been attending meetings and addressing the council, even if her presentations are coached by Jim.  At least she is trying to make an impression and trying to fully understand what is going on. 

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @badnewsinem  @arizona1234

 Saving us money?  That is pure crap!!!!  $11.5 million in Bonds, raising water rates 89% from 2010 to 2017.  Increased fees for everything pretty much.  While they will tell you to your face your tax LEVY (total money) only went up 2% or so as required by law, they had to raise the tax RATE (percent you are charged) to offset the drop in property values and the foreclosures to make that LEVY go up the 2%. The primary tax rate increased  from 1.6710 to 1.7118 percent while the secondary tax rate was expected to be raised from 1.2030 to 1.9110. This means the total tax rate was expected to go from 2.8740 to 3.6228 percent which is an increase of 26.05% [(3.6228-2.8740)/2.8740*100].   Explain again how they are SAVING us money? They are robbing you and us blind and you followers of them are blindly being suckered.  Do you realize if the home rule option passes, they can borrow or spend anything they want by voting 6-1 that it is an emergency WHETHER OR NOT there is revenue in the budget to cover it.  That is giving them a blank check because the only one that votes against the clown council of the mayor, Shapera, Selby, Delgado, Ramirez, and Palladino is McPhetres.  So they have a blank check unless we vote one of them out so they can not make the 6-1 vote and claim emergencies anytime they want.  Wake up people before it is too late.

arizona1234
arizona1234

 @proelmirage Again, I guess as I thought you don't have the guts to reveal your real identity. It is called a primary election because it is an election. Wikipedia says " a primary election is an election that narrows the field of candidates before the general election". In El Mirage the candidates that win 50% plus one, win the election in the primary and do not have to take part in the general election. You might just be surprised at how much the voters care about this election how rude of you to say they don't care. Come on give us your real name, show  I am wrong, you do have the guts.

tiredofitall
tiredofitall

 @badnewsinem  @monica-alonzo

 Don't you just love the maturity of the supporter of the group that back the mayor, etc?  They resort to name calling when they talk about those that disagree with them.

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

 @badnewsinem and this relates to me and what I said how? fuck off. I dont care about what happens in El Mirage unless it's 400+ cases of sexual abuse that were ignored. Why? Because I don't live there but I am against child rapists being allowed to continue their abuses on children. I was only making a point about how AZ wants to lock you up for minor things to make money off of you, IE they want to install the cameras (which also make huge profits for the private corporations running them, so I still don't get why you directed your non-sequitor to me.

teapotparty
teapotparty

 @ptcgaz

 Because the candidate that Monica is supporting for a City Council seat committed a class 2 misdemeanor.  Just want her to know the punishment for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Sayitisntso
Sayitisntso

 @arizona1234  @proelmirage

 Actually the ballot says to vote for three but you really can vote for UP TO three.  If you do not want your third vote to help one of the incumbents get to the 50% +1 standard, only vote for the two non-incumbents to keep the incumbents from getting the extra votes.  Voting for only two does not invalidate the ballot.  It is only invalidated if you go over three.  So if you do not want the incumbents do not waste your extra vote on it.

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