MCSO Sergeant Says Main Goal Is to Catch Illegal Immigrants, Contradicting Deputy Chief Brian Sands' Testimony

See also: Deputy Chief Brian Sands' Testimony Contradicted by His Statements in 2010
See also: Joe Arpaio's Deputy: Sheriff Is Misinformed About Illegal Immigration Patrols
See also: Joe Arpaio Struggles in Racial-Profiling Trial
See also: Joe Arpaio's (ahem) Legal Scholar Brett Palmer and Brian Sands Under Oath



arpaio-pucker.jpg
A sergeant for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office reaffirmed in federal court this morning that the goal of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's infamous "crime-suppression" patrols is to stop and detain illegal immigrants even if the suspects aren't charged with state crimes.

MCSO Sergeant Manuel Madrid -- a supervisor for the agency's Human Smuggling Unit -- testified today in the class-action racial-profiling lawsuit, which claims illegal immigration enforcement patrols by Joe's office discriminate against Hispanic residents, even those who are in the country legally.

While some MCSO staff who have testified in the trial have been less blunt about the immigration raids, Madrid's testimony was brutally honest at times. At one point, the sergeant said that a suspect being Hispanic was a factor and "a totality at the end" for bringing up suspicion of the person being an undocumented immigrant.

Not speaking English or speaking broken English were other factors, as well as presenting a foreign ID during a traffic stop, Madrid testified.

In comparison to last week's testimony from Deputy Chief Brian Sands -- who said the main goal wasn't to arrest illegal immigrants, but was only an "end result" to MCSO's sweeps -- seemed like a direct contradiction to Madrid's comments today.

"If people are arrested and, subsequently, they're in the country illegally, that's the end result of stopping a certain amount of people," Sands said last week in the trial.

Madrid went on to say that even some of the neighborhoods where MCSO selected to do the crime sweeps were for reported crimes related to human smuggling. But the main pretext to initiate contact with suspects were simple traffic violations, such as cracked windshields or driving over the speed limit -- infractions unrelated to immigration laws.

While questioning the sergeant, Cecilia Wang, the plaintiffs' lawyer, asked Madrid if he would agree that deputies aggressively enforcing traffic violations in Latino neighborhoods under the assumption that illegal immigrants live there would qualify as racial profiling.

"I would agree with that," Madrid stated.

Even though he denies MCSO racially profiles, Madrid inadvertently admitted that's exactly what Arpaio's office does, because deputies patrol Latino-saturated neighborhoods to catch illegal immigrants, as the sergeant said.

The trial is scheduled to be over on Thursday, with the possibility of being extended to next month, but that will depend on whether U.S. District Judge Murray Snow wants the closing arguments heard or written.


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79 comments
Formercop
Formercop

Brian Sands is a complete liar and has no integrity!  I know this from 1st hand experience! No Credibility!  None!

donttrusthim
donttrusthim

Brian Sands is a dirtbag.  Dont trust anything that comes out of his mouth.  He is Sheriff Joe's boy and has been for a long time.  This guy is an embarrasment to any real Law Enforcement officer.

spamalo5
spamalo5

First of all do not like Sheriff Joe, have you every been in mexico and been in there prisons, do we go over there, and say are rights have been violated we are going to sue? Mexico is beautiful although  i would dare go over there, you used to be able go to rocky Point other parts not now',.And yes we need the drugs to stop coming from mexico, have you seen the rise of heroin addiction what it is doing to are youth and others,There are a lot of decent people who do belong in Az.But when a US citizen that has paid taxes and worked, cannot get in help from the state we are in trouble, we have children in US that are living in cars, no food , parents cannot find a job, lost there homes,and you are going to let illegals come into the US get 6 months 1,500 ,medical, help with a home, probably one the bank took from you, and the city has used block grant money to fix up, give them a home too' Where are my civil rights, i want a 24/7 phone number i can call when my rights have been violated here in AZ, happens all the time regardless of your race, The police are just as corrupt . towards people that live in Az as they no we cannot go and hide, most US citizens will pay there fine. Let the people stay who have jobs and are decent people, I say no to law suits , why did i not get to sue when my rights were violated'

robert_graham
robert_graham

Hey what's wrong ptcgaz, cat got your tongue?

The Cult of The Yellow Sign
The Cult of The Yellow Sign

Noooooo! Our meat-puppet of evil has been exposed! Who will serve as our dread agent and flagrantly violate basic human rights now?

DNichols
DNichols

I admire your Honesty, and Courage Seargent Madrid.

 

The M.C.S.O. has many Good People, however it is very refreshing to see one in the upper ranks under Sheriff Arpaio.

 

Arpaio Lies so much he dosen't even know what is is to be "Honest".

 

 

robert_graham
robert_graham

Every police department should have the same goals.  It's just unfortunate that others don't.  Funny though that when police departments announce their goals to catch drunk drivers, drug dealers and deadbeat dads, nobody bats an eye.  Nobody bats an eye either when the Border patrol announces all the time that their goal is to catch illegal aliens so therefore there should be no controversy about MCSO having the same goals to catch illegal aliens.  Go out and get 'em Joe!!!!!!

Coz...
Coz...

The fact is, you can't trust anyone in Government.

cozaz1
cozaz1

Did you really expect anything else ?

Sands and Arpaio are nothing but liars with badges,

Corrupt bastards.

peeonpearce
peeonpearce

@ guest Please go back to what ever shit hole you came from and take the Sheriff with you.. Guess you don't know what Racial Profiling is? I am an American born, but because my skin is Brown, does that  give the MCSO and Phoenix PD the right to violate my rights?? That is what Sheriff Joe think's and Russel Peirce, Jan Brewer.. That's what we are fighting!! Violating a person's right's because of the color of someones skin. You can't tell if person is Illegal as they pass by in a car. So it's OK according to you and other Racist, to pull them over even though they did nothing wrong.. Color was the Crime.. It happens all the time, it has been recorded on Camera. Not all stop's are against Illegal's, MOST are against Law Abiding Citizens.. That is where the problem is.. That is why the Hispanic Community is PISSED.. If you are not Brown you don't know our frustration..

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @spamalo5 But most people do like Sheriff Joe.  Do you think he's been re-elected so many times because people don't like him?  All the publicity in the news media about him only adds to why he is supported.  Plus he's got much more cash than his challenger.  there is no doubt he will win and during his next tem things will really change for the better.  If you don't like it, kiss my ass.

wtf..
wtf..

 @spamalo5 You have no clue what this lawsuit is all about do you? it isn't illegal immigrants vs Arpaio is LEGAL citizens suing Arpaio 

justme
justme

 @spamalo5

 Your post demonstrates the meaning of "raving lunatic."

Bnbk
Bnbk

 @arpaiofan

 Not likely,but I'll bet Arpaio's Fudge Freeway has yours.

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

 @arpaiofan IT'S not their job to catch illegals. Their job is to uphold STATE and local law. Not FEDERAL law you moron.

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @cozaz1 No you just don't like the fact that you cannot get away with crime.  Those men and women with badges are great people.  There is nothing corrupt about fighting crime.

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @peeonpearce Nobody is arrested because of the color of their skin.  They are arrested because they violated the law.  But it just so happens that because the illegal aliens here have brown skin which is why only brown-skinned people are detained.  But go find an illegal alien from say Canada or Nigeria or France or Japan or China and Sheriff Arpaio will happily pick them up too.  Are you saying that people with brown skin should not be pulled over even if they violate the law?

fairymagic13
fairymagic13

 @peeonpearce If you are "brown" please acknowledge that your "browness" comes from your Native American heritage, NOT from your Hispanich or Latino (Spanish) heritage.  

fairymagic13
fairymagic13

 @arpaiofan  @spamalo5 The reason he gets elected is because the majority of the VOTERS elect him.  The same VOTERS that elected President Obama and Mayor Stanton and many other liberal (and conservative) politicians.  However "most people" do not like Arpaio.  Most people do not vote.  Out of a total of 3,817,117 people, there are 1.9 million people registered to vote in Maricopa County. That's less than half of "most people".     - about 30 of the eligible voters vote in Maricopa County actually vote.  Of those about half who did vote in the last Sheriff's race for Arpaio.  Get your facts straight before spouting off any more of your nonsense.  "Most people" did NOT vote for Arpaio.  About 10% of the people of Maricopa County voted for him.  Could you be more obtuse?

 

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@wtf.. Were you aware melendres is a no-show? The plaintiff's case is a house of cards and is crumbling.

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @ptcgaz You are the moron because police and sheriff enforce federal crimes all the time. Ever hear of bank robbery?  That's a federal crime. Who do you think responds to bank robbery alarms - the FBI? They show up later. And have you ever hear about our drug laws?  That's a federal crime. Or how about kidnapping? That's a federal crime too. Police make arrests for these and other federal offenses all the time so don't tell me they are not supposed to enforce federal law you dick brain.

TruConserv
TruConserv

 @arpaiofanWhat crime, dear child?  You mean the CIVIL violation of being in the country without authorization?

 

Unless and until you actually learn the law surrounding immigration, you really aren't qualified to speak about.

 

Arpaio has plenty of crime to deal with, but he chooses not to.  Why?  because playing to the uninformed, such as you, is what gets him re-elected.

 

No one cares if he finds "illegal immigrants" and turns them over to the feds (like what happens in a bank robbery, the locals arrive, the feds take over).

 

This is about RACIAL PROFILING. It's about people who are every bit the American you are who are being harrassed because the "look" like a Mexican.  That's the harm of racial profiling.

 

Racial profiling is illegal.  It actually is a federal crime. This civil lawsuit is designed to stop illegal conduct.

 

What part of illegal don't you understand?

 

peeonpearce
peeonpearce

 @arpaiofan Dumbass again you miss the point!! Get it in your Fucking Head.. We are being pulled over for being Brown not for breaking any law..I have been pulled over, I was going the speed limit, I had my Insurance, Registration.. FIRST THING THE COP ASK ' DO YOU HAVE ANY DRUGS OR WEAPONS IN YOUR CAR?". I asked why I was pulled over He would not tell me till after he ran my License.. He said I pulled you over because you fit the Profile BALD AND HISPANIC!!! Those were his fucking words.. He did not give me no warning or a ticket,,CAUSE I DID NOTHING WRONG!!! HE PULLED ME OVER BECAUSE I FIT A CERTAIN PROFILE. They find things later, to those who are not driving legal..To pull someone JUST BECAUSE WE LOOK A CERTAIN WAY IS ILLEGAL!! THE MCSO VIOLATED THE LAW NOT ME..

peeonpearce
peeonpearce

 @fairymagic13 I am  Chicano, not Native American.. and if you don't know what a Chicano is look it up.. It was in the Dictionary long before they made up the word Hispanic..

 

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @fairymagic13 Oh really, well who did they vote for then? It certainly wasn't one of his challengers or he wouldn't have been re-elected to office so many times.  But you are wrong, most people support Arpaio.  If they didn't do you think his coffers would surpass that of his challengers?  All the negative publicity surrounding him is actually helping him because most people know the negative publicity is simply a merit less attack designed to discredit him.  The liberals will stop at nothing to discredit a candidate even if means spreading vicious lies.  But let's see what happens come election time and who gets the last laugh last.

interloper
interloper

 @JoeArpaioFan

>Where's your logic?  Obviously anybody who is here illegally evaded federal officials to enter this country illegally.  They didn't just go poof out of thin air.  That is your proof they evaded federal officials to come here.<

 

Maybe there is hope.

 

The length a of a B2 visa is 6-months. So by your logic a if person that comes here under a tourist visa and stays here 6-months and one day, gets stopped by the police and doesn't have their passport with them, then the police instantly have all the evidence they need to establish probable cause that the person they stopped entered the country illegally.  In fact they entered the country legally, but they are here illegally, a civil infraction, not a federal crime. What about the person who is still under a visa but just doesn't have it with them when they are stopped? That could put a damper on Canadian snowbird tourism, no?

 

>Why should immigration violations be excluded?<

 

Because not all immigration violations are a crime. For example, possession of small amounts of pot in California is now a civil infraction. Do California police arrest a person they catch under the Federal criminal statute? No, they give the person a citation and let them go.

 

A person who admits that they entered the country illegally is the same as witness statements so that is a moot point. However, they are extremely unlikely be charged with a violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1325, unless the feds suspect they are involved in some other crime.

 

Ask yourself this question: Who is more likely to be investigated for a "show me your papers" violation, the Canadian tourist who overstayed their tourist visa, or the dark skinned natural born U.S. citizen who has an accent? Natural born U.S. citizens are not going to be in an USCIS database. Aside from the fact that SB1070's "show me your papers" was a bald faced unconstitutional usurpation of powers granted only to the Federal government, we are all also guaranteed equal protection under the law by the Constitution. I don't call subjecting any group of people to detention, however brief, because they fit an ethnic profile, equal protection.

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @interloper Where's your logic?  Obviously anybody who is here illegally evaded federal officials to enter this country illegally.  They didn't just go poof out of thin air.  That is your proof they evaded federal officials to come here.

 

There are many ways police can establish probable cause to believe a person whom they stop could be here illegally including the driver admitting that he or she is illegal (that happens all the time) not having an ID and now, "not being able to show papers". 

 

Of course police need probable cause to make arrest but they make arrests for federal crimes such as bank robbery, kidnapping, drugs and other things all the time.  Why should immigration violations be excluded?

 

If a driver police stop admits to being here illegally, or if they cannot prove their immigration status "with papers", that is probable cause to detain that person.

 

Legal Hispanics who argue that they have been detained and mistaken for an illegal alien is silly.  This is why "show me your papers" is common-sense.  The reason that legal Hispanics are sometimes detained is the fault of the government. Once ICE gives Arizona access to 287(g) again, any questions as to a persons citizenship status could be verified more quickly to avoid lengthy detention.

interloper
interloper

 @JoeArpaioFan Sigh. I think you missed the point. Reread my post and see if you can make sense of it. 

 

If the MCSO or state or local police did not directly witness, or have video tape or other evidence, or witness statements indicating that the person they have detained evaded federal immigration officials to get into the U.S., then they have *no probable cause* to believe that a federal misdemeanor (i.e. a violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1325) occurred. Probable cause is what prevents the police from arresting random people because they might get lucky and snag a real criminal every so often. You know, the 4th amendment. And simply being in the country without proper documentation is *not a federal crime* nor is it evidence that a person committed a federal crime (i.e. evaded federal immigration officials) to get into the U.S.

 

I don't know how I could make it any clearer. Your analogy of local police arresting a suspect for the federal crimes of kidnapping or bank robbery does not work, because the police have to have probable cause that the suspect committed the crime in order to make a lawful arrest.

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @interloper Even if entering this country illegally is only a misdemeanor, shoplifting is just a misdemeanor but that doesn't mean that who steal shouldn't be arrested and prosecuted for the crime.

interloper
interloper

 @arpaiofan Entering the country illegally by eluding immigration officials is a federal misdemeanor(8 U.S.C. § 1325). Being in the country without proper immigration status, such as an expired visa, is a civil infraction. In order for such an arrest to be lawful the police would have to show that they had reasonable cause to believe that the person being arrested had intentionally eluded immigration officials upon entering the country, and hadn't simply overstayed their visa or lost their documentation. Mere presence in the country is not reasonable cause. The fact the the BP handcuffs and detains persons they find in the country without documentation does not automatically indicate that the person detained is being charged with a crime. Your original point was that MCSO or other state and local LE can make arrests for federal *crimes*. No reasonable suspicion of a crime = no lawful reason to arrest.

 

Now ask yourself why all of the illegal aliens, who are actually caught in the act of eluding immigration officials, are not hauled before a federal magistrate to potentially "be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both'.

 

Legal intricacies don't always line up with rhetoric.

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @interloper HA! Illegal immigration is not a civil infraction.  Because it is not, the Border Patrol arrests, handcuffs and takes illegal aliens they catch to jail everyday.  They pick up lots more illegal illegal aliens that Arpaio does.  So what were you saying?

interloper
interloper

 @arpaiofan So when was the last time you were arrested, handcuffed, and taken to jail for a civil infraction?

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@TruConserv conspiracy to commit human smuggling seems to have done the trick. If this racial profiling suit had any real evidence to support the allegation made, it wouldn't be handled as a civil suit with zero repercussions. It will be sad when even the preponderance of evidence standard can't even be met.

peeonpearce
peeonpearce

 @JoeArpaioFan oh but the Police would never pull anyone over unless they had a reason!! Well Jackass they do all the time.. But who are you going to believe me and the hundreds that have been or I Arpio that doesn't remember what he put in his own book? Has cost the Taxpayers over 40 million in law suits. Millions missing from the budget. 400 SEX CRIMES  not investigated.. over and over the guy is just a piece of SHIT.. Andrew Thomas his buddy Disbarred, WAKE UP WHAT DOES ALL THIS TELL YOU ABOUT THIS GUY??

peeonpearce
peeonpearce

 @JoeArpaioFan guess you don't read very well.. The Officer admitted to me that he only pulled me over because I fit a Profile!! Bald and Hispanic.. It was daylight  there are no problems with my car, Honda Civic 2006. all original, Honda hubcaps, not lowered, original cd player..ALL STOCK.. The office broke the Law..SEEMS TO ME YOU HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT THE MCSO DISCRIMINATES?? WELL THEY DO APRIO AS FUCK.. YOUTUBE HAS MANY VIDEOS WHERE THEY ILLEGALLY SEARCH PEOPLE CARS,PULL PEOPLE OVER FOR NO FUCKING REASON, OTHER THAN THEY WERE BROWN.. IF I PULLED OVER EVERY18 TO 28 YEAR OLD WHITE KID SOONER OR LATER YOU WILL FIND DRUGS, WEAPONS, AN OUTSTANDING WARRANT SOONER .THAT IS WHAT THEY DO TO HISPANICS.. PULL EVERYONE OVER TILL YOU FIND AN ILLEGAL THAN PUT IT ON THE NEWS THAT THEY ARRESTED 10 PEOPLE DURING THE SO CALLED SWEEP..THEY ARE VIOLATING PEOPLES RIGHTS.. YOUR AN IDIOT IF YOU THINK THAT IS OK.. THEY ARE FISHING , HOPING TO FIND SOMETHING.. THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU HERE ABOUT ON THE NEWS.. YOU DON' HERE ABOUT THE ONES THEY PULLED OVER AND NO CITATION WAS ISSUED CAUSE EVERYTHING CAME BACK CLEAN..

 

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @peeonpearce When you were pulled over, was it during the day, evening or night?  What kind of car were you driving?  Were all your lights working and was your car properly registered?  What are the cross streets of the traffic stop?

robert_graham
robert_graham

 @ptcgaz Right.  Most are dark skinned and could easily be confused for a black person.

fairymagic13
fairymagic13

 @Bnbk  You stated: "Brown skin was NOT imported from Europe".  Perfectly grasped my point.  Thank you.  Chicanos (Mexican Americans), Guatemalans, Mexicans, etc. are not necessarily all Brown.  Many are not of Native American ancestry at all - pure blood spanish follk or immigrants from other non-American countries.  But the ones who get me are the ones who DO HAVE Native American heritage, yet deny it and are bigoted against those who are proud of it.  There's a WHOLE LOT of hate in these countries against mestizos and natives.  Talk about self-hatred.  But I digress.  My point is to make sure that we know what we're talking about - People who are hating against illegal immigrants are hating, really, against Native Americans and the indigneous parts of the people they hate.  You don't have a bunch of rednecks here hating on the Candaians who fill our trailer parks out in Mesa.  There's THOUSANDS but Sheriff Joe don't go there and bust those people to see how many don't have their immigration papers in order.  I'm just trying to remind people to work for Native rights, not just illegal immigrant rights.  There's plenty of injustice taking place all over Arizona regarding native americans as well as those with indigenous genes from other countries. 

 

Bnbk
Bnbk

 @fairymagic13  @ptcgaz

 You seem to be bent on preaching to the wrong side. Your comments should be directed at people like Huppenthal and his cronies. Your assertion that Mexicans and other nationalities dissassociate their brown skin from their anscestors is hogwash.It is people such as Horne,Huppenthal,along with others,that have made a concerted effort to deny Chicanos,Mexicans and others their history and anscestry.....As I and many others have stated on these forums many times before......Brown skin was NOT imported from Europe.....The problem seems to be that Anglos are not willing to admit their true history and will only allow their version of history to be heard.

shadeaux14
shadeaux14

 @arpaiofan He's an American, dipshit. Your comment does, however, show your racist ideation.

fairymagic13
fairymagic13

 @ptcgaz My point is that Chicanos and Mexicans and quite a few more people of nationalities from Central and South America dissassociate their brown skin from their anscestors - the indigenous peoples which contributed those "brown skin" genes to them.  It is those with brown skin that Arpaio and his ilk are racially profiling.  The reason is because he doesn't want the indigenous peoples of these lands to retake their stolen lands.  He doesn't care if they are undocumented or not, he just wants to harrass brown skinned people and convince them to leave Arizona. 

fairymagic13
fairymagic13

 @peeonpearce Chicano - an American citizen of Mexican origin.  So what does that have to do with my point - oh yeah - you missed it entirely!  Dude - own your indigineous genes man.  The only reason you are brown is because you have genes which make you that way - NATIVE AMERICAN GENES!  Spanish people are white Europeans!  This is what I mean, a lot of brown-skinned hispanics are hatin on their brown side - they need to get out of that confused mess of a hate-hole and identify the true enemy - haters of native peoples. 

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