Hernandez Rojas Dies After Border Patrol Agents Taser and Beat Him (Video)

Categories: Multi-Media

The introduction to this week's cover story, "Cloaked Brutality, is chilling. It shows immigrant Anastasio Hernandez Rojas' final moments of consciousness. As U.S. Border Patrol agents deported him on May 28, they beat and stun-gunned him until he lay stone still. Hernandez Rojas was pronounced dead in a hospital. 

These final moments were recorded in grainy video from a cell-phone camera belonging to Humberto Navarrete, a young man from San Diego. While the video is less than clear, Rojas' cries for help and screams of pain are not. Hear them for yourself in the video above.


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Lance Savage
Lance Savage

(CONTINUED HERE) It is not an easy decision- do you offer specialized training and weapons now and hope that they don't use their new skills and tool on our forces or innocents, and that their country and their people benefit and are better protected and safer, realize this, and come to become allies, or it backfires, and your decision haunts you as you see American soldiers being killed with U.S. special weapons and tactics? I am all for the police training, and basic soldering and soldier values and honor, but specialized SF training I am very leery of, and I believe that we have made some very poor decisions in the past, (and at this rate, will likely to continue to do so) but there are some countries that are stable, have a history of non-aggression, and need the specialized training as they are facing a threat that could destroy them. Do you really have a problem with training Norwegian SF with current U.S. SF tactics and conduct joint training exercises? I don't. I would rather do that then keep on playing "World Cop"-

I think you can agree with my perception that we are, and have a longstanding bad habit of, playing "World Cop", and that we really need to get out of a lot of countries that we are in and leave it to that country's regional allies come to their aid if they ask for it and need it. We are spending far too much money on our current pet projects, and they still hate us. It is time to pull out, and bring the money and the soldiers home, and make their own regional nations help and spend their money. Saudi, Kuwait, the Arab League, etc., can work things out- and they have the $$. Now, the more backwards a country is, the more likely it is run and operated by it's religion and religious law- and in the ME, there are all sorts of different forms of Islam (in addition to all the other religions, but Islam is the largest percentage), and most of these countries who should be asking their neighbors for help will not b/c their religious variations are different and they hate each other for it. They need to get over it!

Again, your particular "utopia" of having the U.S. "get the hell out of Mexico" would not work- unfortunately, the U.S. and Mexican economy are too dependent on illegal Mexicans working the in U.S. sending billions of dollars back to Mexico and draining U.S. social services, education, unemployment, and healthcare instead of Mexico's social programs, along with the U.S. tourist dollars and the U.S. government supporting the Mexican economy, government and tourist trade- both monetarily, and by not reporting heavily on the violence and kidnapping epidemic that threatens not only the border, but is encroaching into Mexico's tourist towns and locations for that to work out- it would sink both economies, and every economy south of Mexico. So, the U.S. simply can't "get the hell out of Mexico" like you want without economic collapse, and I know that we simply can't round up all the illegals and send them back to their home countries, both the U.S. and Mexican economies would be devastated.

The U.S. cannot afford to help everyone (hell, we should not be playing "World Cop", but that is a whole other conversation)- we would / will collapse as a economy and a society- at one time in history, sure, we said "give us your tired, your poor, weak, huddled masses"..., but guess what- that was a propaganda effort to get the country populated and strong- economically and militarily- we are now overpopulated, and Social Security will go away in a few years, our social services are overloaded and drained, our public schools are broke, and we have plenty of poor people here in the U.S. who are LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS, who need help- we need to help out our own people and get them out of poverty before we can look the world in the eyes with a clear conscience and start helping others. Like I said before, I would love a world with no poor, sick, starving, victims of crime, war, etc., but the U.S. cannot afford to help everyone- we would / will collapse as a economy and a society if we keep up with the current expenditures on foreign assistance and services taken advantage of by illegals.

We need the labor that is currently provided by illegals (not just Mexicans, but they are the majority), and we cannot simple round them up and send them home- it would be disastrous to the U.S., Mexican, and every economy in the region. The negative effect would be felt worldwide in one way or another. However, if we start fining employer who hire illegals, and assist and guide the companies and businesses on how to properly obtain foreign workers- from Mexico or whatever country they would like, and then deport the illegals slowly, steadily, over time, and at the same time replacing the illegal workers with legal ones who have valid visas.

The deported illegals do know how to work in the U.S., and have experience and skills if they have been in the U.S. illegally for a while, so I think that the deported illegals should be given the opportunity to either pay a fine for their illegal and flagrant disregard for U.S. law (along with any taxes that they failed to pay while working illegally), or if they cannot pay a fine, or do not want to pay the fine, wait the required years after being found and busted as an illegal (currently, the more times you get busted and deported, the longer the time you have to wait to legally return to the U.S.- either as a tourist or to work), and then, after they either pay their fine or wait their time, be assisted in getting the appropriate visa to get back to the U.S. and get back to the work they were doing as an illegal, but now legally. The visa application process also does a criminal history check, (so this would hopefully prevent the majority of career and/or violent criminals who are here illegally from ever being able to return legally), but clear cases of a "frame ups, or being wrongly accused or convicted, or people who are political prisoners and considered by their country to be a "criminal" are taken on a case-by-case basis, and if it is found that they are not criminals in the eyes of the U.S., they too can get visas (this is the case today- we have lots of foreign former political prisoners here legally).

This is another point that I previously stated and you seem to agree with as you sort of paraphrased it- Where we can learn some potential lessons is in the area of prisons and "rehabilitation"- there is little to no rehabilitation of convicts in our penal system, and often they come out as more dangerous criminals with little regard for the public- that is one of the reason the recidivism rate is so high. Our corrections system sucks on so many levels I won't even get into it as I could write a book, but something has to be done. We do need sociologists to look at the differences between the U.S. and similar modern countries that have much better success at lowering recidivism, lower crime rates, and have a far smaller percentage of the population behind bars. There are no simple answers, that is why sociologists and other experts need to study the issue. It is a huge, embarrassing stain on our country. Again, I think you are in agreement with this, but you did not acknowledge it, and more or less said the same thing after I mentioned it, so I am unsure if you read it when I stated it below.

On the bright side, having visited prisons in Mexico, China, Lebanon, Macedonia, Turkey, and a few other places, and our prisons are far nicer and safer than the ones that I have visited. I have visited some EU prisons that are quite nice, and very safe, (Belgium has the best prisons- large, clean, safe,good food, education and work) and we should see if we can learn something from the countries that have low recidivism, safer prisons, and offer genuine efforts to rehabilitate the offenders in the ultimate goal of returning them to society as a functional, contributing assets.Anyhow, I have to start doing my income taxes, and I have avoided starting for long enough. So, that is my two cents on the "open minded" critic that thinks that myself and U.S. law enforcement are the "bogyman", and racist, jack-booted thugs.

I find it funny that in one sentence you state that you are a former "Vice Consul", and then later stated that the illegals in the U.S. are "our future leaders"- to include a possible President! I would hope that you would know enough about U.S. law to know that a foreigner- especially an illegal one- cannot become POTUS! Unless, of course, you change the laws- but why would we ever want a President who is / was illegally in the U.S.? It would never fly out of "morals and personal character" laws and regulations for Government employees and elected officials at the level of the White House.

Well, I said that I was going to stay out of the illegal immigrant issues, and I clearly blew that, so I may as well close by restating the facts on the illegal that died after attacking the Border Patrol agents and had to be restrained- he was un-cuffed and told to return to Mexico, but for some reason- Meth, anger, crazy, etc., he turned around and went after the BP agents who had to restrain him again, and due to his own actions, the BP was forced to put him on the ground and- using the least amount of force necessary- restrain him for his, the public's, and the officer's safety- this involved placing some of their body weight (simply holding him with their hands was not enough) on his legs, torso, and possibly arms, and head/neck region. Since he could be heard yelling loudly, it was a clear indication that he had an open and un-obstructed airway, and had no problems getting air in his lungs. You cannot place your entire body weight on someone using your knees- you simply can't balance well enough- so they likely had their feet on the ground, and were kneeling, placing only part of their body weight on him. It us unfortunate what happened, but I stick by my assertion that he caused his own death. Now, Ii agree, there are plenty of acts of police violence and brutality- Amadu Dialo and the NYPD with the broom handle ass-rape, the list goes on....However, for the size of our population, the number of criminals, and the number of arrests that are made in the U.S. every year that require that the subject be restrained to protect him / her, the public, and the officers, we have a far better track record than most other countries. True, zero deaths would be nice, but that will simply never happen as there will always be some idiot who ends up dying due to his own poor health not being able to handle the amount of force needed to subdue him or stop his or her violent behavior.

Anyhow, I think I have made my points and clearly will not likely sway the former Junior Officer as he sadly appears to believe he is all-knowing and has the miraculous ability to know me inside and out by reading partial posts (I still can't tell if he read the entire thing as he paraphrased some of the same ideas I was espousing). With any luck, some of my efforts to enlighten readers on law enforcement, crime, and reality, and will open the eyes of at least one reader into becoming a little more open-minded and realize that "news" sites like this one have a clear agenda and are irresponsible for embellishing stories towards their own political motivations and private agenda- left, right, or whatever their agenda is. No, I'm not a Republican, Democrat, Tea-bagger, etc. I have my own ideas and every party has some good ideas and a lot of bad ones- I try to set aside the emotional and embellished junk and try and find the truth (usually somewhere in between) for my own benefit.

I need to finish my taxes and get ready for tomorrow- I have volunteered my time to help a new amputee get back into society and life after being wounded in Afghanistan, thru the "Wounded Warrior Project", which helps out in many aspects with wounded and injured member of the U.S. Military in overcoming their fears and perceived limitations, and return to society, get a job, go to college, go grocery shopping, etc. It is a good cause with no political affiliations, so, if anyone is interested, visit their website and see all of the different ways to help. I happen to have some of the experiences and injuries that some of these young men and women have, so I am best utilized as an understanding support system and mentor- maybe you would like to ride a bike for charity or donate...

Lance Savage
Lance Savage

I really have to stop banging my head against this "wall"- you claim to read my entire posts, yet you paraphrase some of the exact things I am saying- (just some- we clearly differ on a lot of it), so either you are reading the entire posts and like some of my statements enough to paraphrase them, or you are simply "skimming".

Aaah.. so, you were a "Vice Consul"... that probably explains a lot. Do you have any idea how many of your visa-stamping colleagues are regularly arrested for either selling visas under the table, approving questionable visas for people who clearly have no intent on returning to their country, or fail to see thru the weak fake docs and employment offers being slid under the glass?For the un-initiated, a "Vice Consul" (AKA: Junior Officer, or "JO") is usually (but not always) a bright-eyed, idealistic, naive, recent college grad who believes everything he or she reads in the news and has grand ideas of being a part of the State Department by stamping visa applications "Approved or Denied" in whatever Embassy or Consulate they are assigned to, immersing themselves in the local culture, and (generally) believe that just because they passed the Foreign Service Exam, it must indicate that they know everything, and that contrary opinions "must be wrong" if they did not think of it first. The DoS like to hire JOs as they are willing to sit behind a glass partition and ask the same questions to applicants all day long.... yawn.

Time and time again, Vice Consuls are fired and / or arrested from the Foreign Service for accepting bribes, or revealing sensitive information to the local intelligence services who ply them with females and booze (or males- depending on which way they swing). Thankfully, Vice Consuls are never really ever given access to much Classified information (they are most all issued TS clearances after their background investigation is completed), as the "need to know" just is not there- they generally don't need to know anything beyond "Sensitive".

Outside of real politicians, JO's are responsible for the more fraud and abuse than any other sector in the State Department.

I know of several recent cases of "Vice Consuls" who were of Chinese decent getting assigned to China, and ending up with a visa applicant refusal rate at around 5%, when the average is around 65%-80% in China due to the culturally acceptable practice of using fake documents to bolster their bonafides on their visa applications, or have no compelling reason to return to China. Many of the fakes are horrible, some are very good. It's not that the Chinese are inherently scam artists or anything, it has developed from the huge communist infrastructure making it difficult or sometimes impossible to find real, legitimate, government issued documents, so they simply make fake ones, and that mentality has spread beyond faking government documents, Anyhow, these Chinese American Vice Consuls end up basically "giving away" visas to undeserving people- often in cooperation with human smuggling rings ("Snakeheads") who pay them, and what these kids fail to realize is that while they may justify their illegal actions believing that they are helping the applicant- who, "of course", must be "just like them" and therefore will do no wrong in the U.S., however, the ugly truth is that if they using a Snakehead, or are female, they are often going to the U.S. unknowing that when they get there, they are going to be forced into labor or prostitution for Chinese nationals in Massage Parlors and underground Majhong gambling joints, and think that they are going over to be a nanny or house help.

Back in the day, I was working up in your former neck of the woods on the local Human Trafficking Taskforces, and I investigated, and ultimately arrested a Vice Consul and his wife for enslaving their housekeeper that they had had when assigned to the Embassy in Beijing, and had assisted her in getting a visa to come to the States and continue to be their nanny/housekeeper. NINE years later, I was given the tip that led us to the enslaved Chinese national, and the poor woman was locked and chained in the basement whenever the family was out of the house, they never paid her anything. Both the Vice Consul and his wife were arrested. We had another one that "partnered" with an individual who worked at a major university and was responsible for going over to China, finding "experts" in the fields in demand, and working out a visa for the person to come to the States and "attend a conference"- the University official charged each illegal around 50K, and the Vice Consul got 2K / head.

Anyhow, I don't know you, so I cannot / will not pass judgment, nor am I inferring that you are / were involved in any illegal activity as a "Vice Consul", but you stating that you are a former Vice Consul brought back some memories- Vice Consuls are not immune to dishonest activities that have horrible repercussions at times, just like not all LEOs are law-abiding- there are bad apples everywhere in society- but enough going down memory lane-

You ignore the fact I pointed out that there are tens of thousands of U.S. Citizens that are dirt-poor and deserve the social services more that the illegals who are sucking it all up en mass.

I must point out that you seem to agree with me that we cannot just round them (the illegals) all up and deport them- as I stated previously, the U.S. economy, Mexico's, and every country south of Mexico would be in trouble, and this would have a dramatic ripple effect that would effect the entire world. We simply can't do it.

You fail to acknowledge or comment on the fact that there are legal visa provisions- H1B (and more) that allow Mexicans to come here legally and work in many fields- not just lettuce fields, and the cost of the visa is less than the cost of a Coyote or a Cartel taking you across, and it is legal.

You also fail to comment or acknowledge the issue I brought up about foreigners who want to come to the U.S. legally, and that to the average foreigner who applies for a U.S. visa legally, learns the language, takes the TOEFL, learns some of the history, and pays the fees and waits to get his/her visa, and applies for naturalization the legal way- it appears to them that if you are Mexican, you can come over illegally, and you don't have to get a visa, and you don't have to pay taxes, and can settle in without any consequences or fear of getting deported, and just wait for the next mass amnesty- it smacks of playing favorites and is an insult to those foreigners of higher morals who go about it legally.

which is what you are proposing as "The" solution- "Mass Amnesty / free U.S. Citizenship (to those willing to break the law to get here) BTW, it's the oldest idea, it's been done tons of times before, and it has never worked- we have done it plenty of times in the past, and it always causes a major influx of illegals to come across the border illegally to become citizens, and it has not solved the problems associated with illegal immigration, only serving to lure people in and encourage them to simply hide out long enough- as they will become citizens without having to go about it in a legal way when the next "Amnesty" comes around.

If we make them all citizens as you suggest, are you OK with making all of the criminals who have committed horrible crimes in their country of origin stay and be gifted citizenship as well? Contrary to your statements that "crossing the border illegally into the United States is a "Misdemeanor crime" is a half-truth... it may be a "Misdemeanor crime" in the sense that Federal Law has the option of 6 months imprisonment followed by deportation and if the individual re-enters before the prescribed period of time that they are banned from re-entering is over are FELONS and can be imprisoned for more than a year. in some State's statutes to use fake state docs, etc, is also a felony, along with any illegal application or attempt to obtain services using fake state docs, but as it comes to Federal law- the act of breaking the Federal Laws regarding illegally entering the United States (the first attempt if caught at the border can end you in Federal Prison for up to a year, but generally practice of "Catch and Release", sending them back to the country that they illegally entered from, but if they "get in", and assume identities of legal Americans- dead or alive, using their new false identities and their victim's credit in applying for a U.S. passport, or other services,are FEDERAL 18 USC FELONIES, along with overstaying visas for the clear intent of staying in the U.S. permanently, so this idea that illegal immigrants have only committed "misdemeanors" is a misleading statement.

If we do what you suggest, and just give them all citizenship- we will just have another 10 million illegals living in the U.S. within 7 years of your amnesty, and then, we are right back where we started. Why don't we just do away with the citizenship process all together? Afterall, you believe (correct me if I am wrong) that we should make all the illegals instant citizens- if you can swim or run across, and have no regard for the law, you can become a citizen without having to apply or have a criminal history check done- who then would need to apply for a visa to come here if we just institute your policy of rewarding every illegal alien with U.S. citizenship? Why don't we just do away with the visa program and laws and let anyone who can reach our soil be anointed as an instant USC? We have the visa and naturalization process in place for very good reasons- the same reasons as every other country in the world has a visa entry process or is under a visa-waiver agreement with whatever country reciprocates (the UK and the USA for tourism is an example), but if you work under a tourist visa, you will be deported, if you are falsely under a Student Visa, you will be deported..... You get the idea- it is NOT a "petty offense", especially when the illegals illegally obtain fake or falsified U.S. identification documents and steal identities for the furtherance of their current crimes.

But, to the average well-intentioned, foreigner with enough morals and is of good character, and does not believe it is right to break the laws of the very country that they admire and want to become a part of, it simply demonstrates to them that if you are of any other nationality other than "Brown", you have to go about it the legal way- it smacks of unfairness, and is a slap in the face to all the foreigners who want to go about becoming an American and getting citizenship the legal way, wait their turn, and really wants to be a part of America and make a positive contribution to our society, and not just suck up "free" social services, healthcare, education, state aid, live tax free, and have deliberate "anchor babies" to circumvent the legal citizenship processes, and send money back to some foreign country- money that probably should have gone towards taxes or getting away from having to suck the government's teat of "free" social services and aid.

I would much rather have people of good moral character, who entered the U.S. legally, applied for citizenship, and obtained it- legally, and generally already have jobs or education lined up, and do not head directly for the local state and federal aid office for the indigent and unemployed and start sucking up "free" social services (and this group of legal immigrants often include Mexican immigrants). Or, we can simply just keep on rewarding those who choose to break our laws and sneak in, and take advantage of all the "free" social services that are already about to fail due to the strain of the sheer amount of poor and illegals we have in this country already? I believe that only U.S. citizens should be eligible for U.S. social services- public school education, medical care, housing, job placement assistance, welfare, etc. There is no other country on earth that lets non-citizens get "free" social services and assistance- you have to pay. If we stopped doing it, healthcare costs would go down, car insurance would go down (well, only if we can get the illegals to get the state-mandated minimum levels of insurance), etc.

You claim that all the illegals are "hard-working", and display "integrity" that you admire... What "integrity"? They lost all integrity when they snuck in illegally, knowing full-well that they were breaking U.S. law, and then, once here, they usually buy or steal the identities of legitimate Americans that have been stolen, get credit cards under their fake identities, rack up huge bills that they never repay, don't pay taxes, pass themselves off as legal Americans with their illegal fake documents, and then, to best secure their lies and falsehoods, apply for U.S. Passports, so they can come and go as if they are here legally..... What integrity? They know full well the problems that they created for the true American's identity that they have assumed, but just like their disregard for U.S. law, they don't care about the impact on the person and the family of the American whose identity they stole. Yes, most illegals are here to work, make money to support themselves and their family, send money back to the homeland, and take advantage of the "free" social services if they need to- and don't get into trouble- you may not see any problem with that, but you are setting the bar real low for the definition of "integrity", and again, we cannot take care of our own U.S. Citizens who live below the poverty line- the negative impact of the illegals- even the ones that sneak in, and work hard, and are not involved in criminal activity (other than the laws they broke entering illegally and establishing an illegal identity) have a negative impact on our society as there are millions of them, and bit by bit, they are bringing us down. We need legal immigrants who will obey U.S. law, pay taxes, and contribute to our society if we are ever going to stop this downward spiral our economy and nation are in. If Mexico ever solves it's problems, and gets back to the regional powerhouse they were in the 70's, I think most illegals would go home- this just shows how "American" they really are- they don't care about America- they are simply going where the money is.

You say that you do not want the U.S. training foreign police or military-Our current policing methods are light-years ahead of most countries (not all, but most)- there is always room for improvement, and the nature of policing must change with the society, however, the techniques and methods I taught are in line with modern policing- you would rather let that country continue to do things the only way they know how? Shoot, beat, torture, whip, etc.? Our efforts brought them "into the light" and gave them non-violent approaches towards interrogations, taught them that they cannot and should not torture people, and use verbal de-escalation techniques, pressure points, soft hands, etc. Would you rather run into a cop in Bosnia that is having a bad day and needs to pin a crime on an easy target and will simply beat you until you confess? or would you rather deal with a well-trained, college graduate who will treat you with the same respect that you give him or her? I'm glad we train foreign police, as prior to my arrival, they only knew the violence and tactics that they had been using for the last 200 years and are ignorant to the idea that you use the least amount of force necessary to effect an arrest.

Now, I never said anything about U.S. elements training foreign military- well, if I did, either you did not understand my point, or I was typing too fast and left out the salient points.I do see the value of teaching BASIC military and soldering techniques and tactics- BASIC.This will help stem human rights abuses if the foreign military realizes that a soldier should be of good character, and killing of innocents is not acceptable. Making them aware of the Geneva Convention rules, and basic, universal, soldering techniques, standards, and tactics of modern, 1st world countries. That can only help- even if the soldiers eventually (or are secretly already) aligned with anti-Western terrorist orgs or dictatorships. Basic soldering training cannot be turned on us and abused or used to kill Americans any more easily than the backward tactics that they had before. HOWEVER, I do not agree with going in and training elite special forces units, insurgent tactics and IED construction. We have a LONG history of that backfiring on us and having those same people turn around and kill Americans with the tactics and weapons we just gave them. I don't even need to start naming all the times / countries where that has come back to haunt us. Now, understand that when we do go in and train, arm, and instruct rebels, or current military, it is done knowing that it is a double-edged sword and that some are likely fighting against the U.S. already, and have disguised their intentions to get into the training, and in some cases, we have found out later that 90% of the class was Al-quida or anti-USA. (CONTINUED)

Lance Savage
Lance Savage

Oh boy, I knew I was in for it posting a "differing" opinion on this rag's site, but oh well.

You stated- "I don't have to do more than read about 3 sentences of this propaganda piece by Lance Savage to know what it and he are about. Nevertheless I will use his structure to comment about his slickly sophisticated defense of US law enforcement and foreign policy arrogance."Well, it is unfortunate that you are not open-minded enough to read the entire post, I really wish you would, but I guess I will have to take some positive credit for a "slickly sophisticated defense of US Law Enforcement and foreign policy..." (sorry I can't cop to being the "ignorant" of foreign policy part as I have not even commented on my opinions of U.S. foreign policy as you have no idea of my foreign police experience, and in addition, I greatly differ with current U.S. foreign policy and have formulated my own opinions based on growing up overseas, and spending a career working overseas and interacting with foreigners of all races, religions, and beliefs).You state that the U.S. should "get the hell out of Mexico"- fine by me, I want the U.S. Military out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and a few other places as well, but if that is the case, and you want the U.S. "out of Mexico" then by the same right, Mexico (and the illegal Mexicans) need to get the hell out of the U.S. - to be fair. I have no issue with Mexicans, I used to live in Mexico, but the illegal ones should go back home to Mexico (or wherever they are from), and go about getting into the U.S. the legal way- there are tons of visa categories that will allow agricultural workers, service industry, healthcare hospice, and other workers come and work in the U.S. legally, and most illegals pay more than the cost of the work Visa to get smuggled in illegally, but your particular "utopia" of having the U.S. "get the hell out of Mexico" would not work- unfortunately, the U.S. and Mexican economy are too dependent on illegal Mexicans working the in U.S. sending billions of dollars back to Mexico and draining U.S. social services, education, unemployment, and healthcare instead of Mexico's social programs, along with the U.S. tourism and the U.S. government supporting the Mexican economy, government and tourist trade (by not reporting heavily on the violence and kidnapping epidemic that threatens not only the border, but is encroaching into Mexico's tourist town and locations) for that to work out- it would sink both economies, and every economy south of Mexico. So, the U.S. simply can't "get the hell out of Mexico" without economic collapse, and I know that we simply can't round up all the Mexican illegals and send them back to Mexico, both the U.S. and Mexican economies would be devastated. I guess neither of us will be happy. I do understand that many of the illegals are poor and desperate, but 1, they often pay more money to get smuggled across than the cost of a visa that they may well be eligible for, and secondly, I would love a world with no poor, sick, starving, victims of crime, etc., but the U.S. cannot afford to help everyone (hell, we should not be playing "World Cop", but that is a whole other conversation)- we would / will collapse as a economy and a society- at one time in history, sure, we said "give us your tired, your poor, weak, huddled masses"..., but guess what- that was a propaganda effort to get the country populated and strong- economically and militarily- we are now overpopulated, and Social Security will go away in a few years, our social services are overloaded and drained, our public schools are broke, and we have plenty of poor people here in the U.S. LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS, who need help- we need to help out our own citizens and get them out of poverty before we can look the world in the eyes with a clear conscience and start helping others.To the average foreigner who applies for a U.S. visa legally, learns the language, takes the TOEFL, learns some of the history, and pays the fees and waits to get his/her visa, it appears to them that if you are Mexican, you can come over illegally, and you don't have to get a visa, and you don't have to pay taxes, and can settle in without any consequences or fear of getting deported, and just wait for the next mass amnesty, and hide behind orgs that support illegal aliens, but if you are of any other nationality, you have to go about it the legal way- it smacks of unfairness, and is a slap in the face to all the foreigners who want to go about becoming an American and getting citizenship the legal way, wait their turn, and really wants to be a part of America, and not just suck up "free" social services, healthcare, education, state aid, live tax free, and have deliberate "anchor babies" to circumvent the legal processes, and send money back to some foreign country- money that probably should have gone towards taxes or getting away from having to suck the government's teat of "free" social services and aid.We need the labor that is currently provided by illegals (not just Mexicans, but they are the majority), and we cannot simple round them up and send them home- it would be desasterous to the U.S., Mexican, and every economy south of Mexico. The negative effect would be felt worldwide in one way or another. However, if we start fining employer who hire illegals, and assist and guide the companies and businesses on how to properly obtain foreign workers- from Mexico or whatever country they would like, and then deport the illegals slowly, over time, and at the same time replacing the illegal workers with legal ones who have valid visas. The deported illegals do know how to work in the U.S., and have experience and skills if they have been in the U.S. illegally for a while, so I think that the deported illegals should be given the opportunity to either pay a fine for their illegal and flagrant disregard for U.S. law, or if they cannot pay a fine, or do not want to pay the fine, wait the required years after being found and busted as an illegal (currently, the more times you get busted and deported, the longer the time you have to wait to legally return to the U.S.- either as a tourist or to work), and then, after they either pay their fine or wait their time, be assisted in getting the appropriate visa to get back to the U.S. and get back to the work they were doing as an illegal, but now legally. The visa application process also does a criminal history check, (so this would prevent the career and/or violent criminals who are here illegally from ever being able to come legally), but clear cases of a "frame ups, or being wrongly accused or convicted, or people who are political prisoners and considered by their country to be a "criminal" are taken on a case-by-case basis, and if it is found that they are not criminals in the eyes of the U.S., they too can get visas (this is the case today- we have lots of foreign former political prisoners here legally). Anyhow, this forum is clearly not the right place for me to bat around ideas of what could and / or should or should not be done, and what is / is not possible to stem the problem of illegal immigration, how to improve the Mexican economy and their citizen's safety and other issues, but after viewing this particular video, and realizing that you cannot tell that anything is going on (as it is such bad quality and you can't even identify where it is), and the only thing that is there is the audio, where you can hear a male voice screaming and yelling and asking for help, and there is also the "narrator" (who's motivations are unknown), but after looking into the incident using other sources, I felt somewhat obligated to explain to the individuals who do not understand police procedure, the reasoning behind why police do what they do in a given situation, etc. and point out that the individual in this case had a clear and unobstructed airway, and the ability to gather large amounts of air in his lungs (necessary for yelling as loud as he was), so his chest did not have enough pressure on it to effect his health, so the idea that the Agents somehow were the "cause" of this poor guys death is a bit of a farce.Years ago, police departments taught officers a technique to "choke out" offenders resisting arrest or fighting / assaulting officers, but that was dropped from the education well over a decade ago, (and some departments- several decades) and is against most all department's approved procedures unless the officer is in mortal, or serious physical danger (basically, almost at the level of being forced to use a firearm to protect the public and the officer(s). The old "choke out" technique was causing far too many unintended deaths as people would pass out, and some were choked so hard that they passed away. This is still a common practice of foreign police, so one of my efforts over the years was to train foreign police on why they should not "choke out" people anymore, and explain the concept of verbal de-escalation, and if the suspect decides to fight and verbal de-escalation techniques are ineffective, that there is a clear path to follow- that the suspect dictates (to put it simply) the officer matches the force used by the criminal, and then takes it one step further, so that the officer maintains the advantage, and helps ensure that the officer will be able to get the job done and arrest the individual with as little effort as is required, and with as little risk to the officer, the public, and the suspect. If he uses his fists, the officer uses a baton, spray, or Tazer- if he uses a lethal weapon- a rock, club, knife, or gun, the officer needs to respond with his firearm, and hopefully does not have to shoot the individual to effect the arrest. We would also show the effectiveness of female officers as their innate skillsets are different from men, and just because they are generally physically smaller, female officers can often calm down individuals of BOTH sexes more easily than males, their voices have different characteristics that naturally put people at ease better than most males (just like how dogs of all types respond better to higher-pitched voices, because puppies and positive social behavior involves higher-pitched tones). Most women have more patience, and are generally better at verbal de-escalation of situations better than men, so women have a definite, and legitimate place in the law enforcement field, and it does not involve just desk duty.Where we can learn some potential lessons is in the area of prisons and "rehabilitation"- there is little to no rehabilitation of convicts in our penal system, and often they come out as more dangerous criminals with little regard for the public- that is one of the reason the recidivism rate is so high. Our corrections system sucks on so many levels I won't even get into it as I could write a book, but something has to be done. We do need sociologists to look at the differences between the U.S. and similar modern countries that have much better success at lowering recidivism, lower crime rates, and have a far smaller percentage of the population behind bars. There are no simple answers, that is why sociologists and other experts need to study the issue. It is a huge, embarrassing stain on our country.On the bright side, having visited prisons in Mexico, China, Lebanon, Macedonia, Turkey, and a few other places, and our prisons are far nicer and safer than the ones that I have visited. I have visited some EU prisons that are quite nice, and very safe, and if we should see if we can learn something from the countries that have low recidivism, safer prisons, and offer genuine efforts to rehabilitate the offenders in the ultimate goal of returning them to society as a functional, contributing assets.Anyhow, I have to start doing my income taxes, and I have avoided starting for long enough. So, that is my two cents on the "open minded" critic that thinks that myself and U.S. law enforcement are the "bogyman", or racist, jack-booted thugs.If you are going to rip me and my post apart, please be open minded enough to read the entire post, and not pass judgment by only reading the first few sentences- you come across as quite the ignorant, close-minded Socialist by announcing that you"know" my argument after only reading a small portion of the post, but I would guess that your ultimate intentions are good, but (in my opinion) you are a bit too close minded (but do not believe it), and have no understanding of law enforcement, and modern, safe police techniques and tactics, and just what LEOs face on a daily basis- especially on the U.S. / Mexico border. I would guess that maybe you have had some negative interactions with police, customs, or law enforcement in the past or present- either deservedly, or not- hell, I was a wild kid and never liked the cops- but people grow and mature, and I was able to have a meaningful career in law enforcement where I know that I have made a positive difference in the lives of many, but, just like anything, I had failures as well. Going back to the audio clip one last time- you can't just let your attacker go free just because he screams for help.... especially if you just let him go, and he turned around and attacked you b/c he is hopped up on Meth, or just wanted to. If it would have only taken one officer to restrain the man and get him back into custody, only one or two officers would have restrained him, and the others would have been nearby in case help was needed.Best of Luck....

Lance Savage
Lance Savage

As a retired law enforcement officer with a full career, working in the U.S. and in multiple foreign countries, I can tell you that if you are dealing with an uncooperative, and/or intoxicated or drugged individual, they can be difficult to restrain, and often require the "blue polyester pile-up", where to the uneducated passer-by may be perceived to be a bunch of thug cops piling up on a guy who is on the ground screaming. Putting knees into the back, legs, arms, or neck/head of an uncooperative, resisting individual is often the best way to restrain him to prevent injury to the suspect, the public, and the officers- if your hands alone cannot control the individual, your bodyweight and knees are tools at hand, and you have to use them. The reality of a scene of a bunch of officers piled on a guy who is screaming and protesting loudly simply indicates that the suspect's airway is open and uninhibited, that his ability to breathe is unrestricted, and likely still has a lot of "fight" left in him. Just letting the individual go at that point is not an option, as if he runs and hurts himself, or the public, you and your department will be sued as the individual was in your custody (handcuffed) and you failed to restrain the individual properly for what was warranted at the time.

Even a cuffed individual on the ground can present a risk to himself and others if he is not further restrained. Cops do not go "hands-on" without reason- usually it is the only option, and many officer get injured by suspects while they are trying to restrain the individual- they get bit, stabbed, headbutted, spit on, come into contact with infected bodily fluids, pricked with used needles, etc. It is a split second decision, but is always considered carefully.

Police are trained in "de-escalation techniques"- you start with verbal commands, if that does not work, or if the subject escalates the situation by presenting a weapon or making a credible threat, the officer has to mirror the escalation and go one step higher to retain or gain the tactical advantage advantage. Baton, OC spray, Tasers, etc. are all tools in non-lethal defense and submission. Sprays can get carried with the wind in the wrong direction and incapacitate the officers, or if is a pile-up, you risk spraying all your fellow officers, and the sprays are ineffective on individuals that have spent years in prison, or have been sprayed repeatedly by officers during other previous contacts when they fought and were sprayed. When you get sprayed more than a few times, you become resistant, immune, and the spray has little or no effect, (just like eating hot sauce regularly) and it will likely just anger the offender.

If the officer knows that the suspect is violent or intoxicated / drugged, cuffs him or her, and the individual starts to fight, run, bite, etc., and does not become compliant with verbal directions, pressure points are applied, but often fail with intoxicated, mentally disturbed, enraged or othwise spun-up individuals, and at that point, the last "soft" technique is to pin the individual down, hog tie (if you happen to have leg cuffs or a leg leash handy) until they settle down (that is if you have enough backup). Hearing them talk, scream, curse, yell, thrash around, etc., is a good sign healthwise- if the individual can still scream, they have an open and unobstructed airway- it may look like it, but the officers are not choking the suspect, and in this case, you can tell his airway is unobstructed as he is yelling and protesting loudly.This particular individual was likely in poor heart health due to age, diet, and environment (and drugs), and got his own hear stressed out with fighting so hard with the officers. Pinning him until you can get him better restrained was likely the best or only option until support restraints can be brought to the scene (generally a bit heavy and bulky for officers to carry leg restraints with them all the time, and with every inch of the waistline taken up with gear... where to put them becomes a problem as well. Zip tie restraints are helpful, but even with the individual hogtied, you still are responsible to prevent teh individual from injuring himself, so often they are physically restrained in the same manner that this individual was. When they Tasered the individual, it likely was the last straw for his heart- very uncommon that a Taser damages the health of an individual- even with heart problems- the amperage is just not high enough to negatively effect the health of the heart, or cause the death in 99.999% of the individuals Tasered. In fact, every cop that carries a Taser has to be Tasered him or herself, to know what it feels like- which is not fun, but gives the officer a better idea and valuable insight into the effects of the Taser. The same holds true for OC spray or Tear Gas. During my career, I was sprayed with OC in training on multiple occasions, and accidentally sprayed while in close quarters with the target during close quarters fights with individuals- my face just happened to be next to his when we were wrestling on the ground, me trying to keep the paring knife in his hand out of my body, and his 100 Lb girlfriend who was stabbing me with a fillet knife (my adrenaline was so pumped up that I did not feel any pain from the stabs, I only felt what I thought was keys in her hands or a lot of sharp rings on her fingers, and my partner rolled up and just started spraying (he was a FNG, and got pretty excited and overdid it a bit) it was not until we got the suspect restrained, the weapon out of his hand, the female restrained, that we opened up her clenched fist and took a broken fillet knife handle out of her grip. She broke the knife when she stabbed me in the head (thankfully, I have a hard head and the blade snapped off when she stabbed me above my eye in my orbital bone area.). That was my big lesson that a tiny female can be just as dangerous as males, and females, due to their generally smaller size than men, often carry weapons- knives are most common.I would have loved to have been issued a Taser as another tool in my non-lethal options. Tasers have their own problems as they are shaped like, and shoot like a firearm, so there have been a few unfortunate incidents when a police office has been under extreme threat and stress, goes for his/her Taser, but has grabbed his/her duty weapon on accident and shot the individual with his sidearm when the intention was, and the officer thought that he/she was shooting the Taser. The issue firearms are usually on one side, and the Taser in a similar holster- preferably on the opposite side of the waist, or strapped to a load-bearing tactical vest on the chest area as it is not as similar of a location as the firearm on the waistline. I feel sorry for both officer and suspect in these cases- the officer will be persecuted, sued, judged by the public and the media, and ultimately tried for accidentally shooting and killing a suspect, and the torture that he or she puts him or herself thru mentally, knowing they accidentally took a life when they had the best of intentions is the worst punishment of all for an officer- who contrary to a lot of the postings here, most LEOs do care for the public safety and joined a LEO agency in the hopes of making a difference in the community or their AOR.As for this video, and this case on the border- I would have done the same thing- if a violent, screaming man escalates the situation to the point where the next best option is pinning him down for his own safety and officer / public safety by as many officers as needed for the situation, that is what needs to be done- there is no brutality in these trained actions, and had the man suddenly gone quiet, and / or stopped resisting suddenly, the officers will de-escalate the situation immediately and check his/he vitals. This did not happen- the officers made the appropriate call to deploy the Taser in an effort to deploy a non-lethal tool to keep him from resisting and fighting harder for his own protection and safety, as well as the safety of the public and the officers, and he died due to his own actions. Unfortunate, yes. Police brutality... NO. Now you cannot see what is going on in the video, but if they were kicking him, that is generally frowned upon, unless you are aiming for a nerve pressure point in the thigh that if applied correctly, will prevent the individual from walking or running temporarily. Just because he was yelling "help", and "stop", and "I'm not resisting...please!!!, does not mean that he was stopping his behavior- it is a common tactic to try and get bystanders or friends to mistakenly think that they are being mistreated or beaten.At that border crossing, Agents are routinely shot at, shot, attacked, pelted with rocks (which can easily kill with a impact to the head). It is the "wild west", and the Cartels and crossers who have nothing to lose by fighting or attacking officers or agents to try and get away from the possibility of a lengthy prison sentence are routinely attacked, and some have been killed. In that area, it is not like a typical U.S. city, and the rules of the game that the cartels and hit squads operate under are very dangerous, and I respect any agent or officer who works down at the border crossings.It is unfortunate that the individual died, but he made his own bed.... the officers used appropriate force, and an unknown health condition, combined with chronic drug use led to his passing. All could have been prevented if the individual had followed verbal commands and complied with the officers. It is not even clear at this point if the Taser shock did it, or if his violent resistance was the overload to his vitals.Most of the BP Agents along the border are of Mexican or Hispanic descent- they know the culture better, grew up in the area, live in the community, often have family and friends in Mexico, and are much better suited to interact with illegals or criminals along the border than the average "white guy" cop... and no, cops are not all steroid junkies- some are, that is fact, and there may be more in the LEO community vs. most professions as it is a male dominated job that requires that your techniques, and tactics are better than the criminal that you are trying to arrest. Often physical presence can intimidate a smaller individual into complying, so I can see the draw to become a hulk, but that is a small few- and they are often found out and fired. It does not take a 6'4" 220 Lb. male cop to be effective- in fact, female agents and LEOs are very effective at diffusing agitated male subjects, and are generally better at using their mouth, tone, and words to effect a compliant subject. Many male criminals, especially those who are hardened, career gang members, have spent a lot of time in prison, or individuals who just hate cops for one reason or another tend to want to confront male officers, and argue and fight, but will behave better with a female agent or officer present.Modern, U.S. police and Agent tactics are well taught, practiced, and supervised in most of the United States- only the subject (we used to call them "suspects", but the more PC and legally defensible term is now "subjects")- the subject himself is the only one that can cause the situation to escalate from being cooperative and getting back the same level of respect that they give to the officer to an escalated situation that ends up in a fight, wrestling match, Taser, OC spray, baton, or firearms.U.S. cops today are some of the best in the world as far as training tactics and ethics- having worked with police agencies in foreign countries for many years, conducting training and explaining how the escalation / de-escalation process works well, is clear to follow, and the suspect is the one who causes the reaction necessary to effect the arrest. You would be amazed at what cops in Mexico, China, the Middle East, Africa, Russia, and other countries are taught- sometimes there is almost no training, and when the officers are not trained on the best way to go about effecting a successful arrest, they improvise or look to the senior cops who are often from a generation that either beat the suspects into submission, or just shoot and ask questions later. I spent nearly a decade conducting training for foreign police in their native countries (which you really need to go to if you want to understand what problems they have, and how their cultural upbringing and training effects what they think and how they act).The USG trains many foreign police agencies at the FLETC and other USG training locations, and I think this sort of diplomacy goes a long ways towards helping foreigners that may have inaccurate views on the U.S. and what the average American thinks about, and views their country and culture- and after two to 12 weeks of training and living with the foreign cops, you develop a bond that -hopefully- those foreign cops will bring back to their native country, and by changing one mind, he/she will tell friends, family, and co-workers about his or her experience with "the Americans", and how we don't really eat babies, etc. This is especially easy with police for some reason- I think that a LEO's beliefs and hopes for their country is something that is universal, and can even get beyond language barriers.We need more action from the Mexican authorities on the border, but since the cartels have more firepower and training than the Mexican military and police, and many Mexican cops are bribed (usually given teh option of "Plomo or Plata" silver or lead- either they take the cartel money and tip them off, or the cartel will just kill or abduct and slaughter the officer and their families, so getting the Mexicans to take a strong stance on the border is a tall order. Until then, the best thing to do is show overwhelming force that will hopefully keep U.S. Agents and police from being shot at, killed, kidnapped, stoned, threatened, etc. We need to let the cartels know that American Federal and local LEOs are not Mexican, and we will control the border crossings and not be intimidated or run out of our own country's border areas. Part of that is also not letting it appear to the public at the crossings that we are "soft" and that if you scream and resist enough, you can get out of the situation, get help from Mexican rock-throwers, or passer-bys. If we appear soft or having lost control at the border crossings in particular- due to the public seeing most all police actions- there will be major reprecussions and the safety of the public will become a major problem.In short, the way that the agents/officers handled the situation was "by the book", and it was an unfortunate outcome that the man died, but again, he could have easily avoided it if he responded positively rather than trying to assault the officers- but meth heads, PCP, Wet, Crack, drunks, the mentally ill and career criminals have a history of improper reactions to police directions. The BP agents are not "racist" as many claim- they are often policing their own communities, and have family and friends in Mexico.These "skewed" reports from people along the border filming the BP and LEOs often have their own agendas, and the cartels have taken advantage of this, and realize that if they post blurry u-tube video clips of narrated taping of the actions where the "narrator" skews the situation and makes viewers believe that the BP and LEOs on the border are abusing "innocent" people- they know full well that the U.S. media will pick up on it, and people will tend to believe a good narrator describing the "brutality" of a fuzzy tape of a man screaming and protesting, but in looking at a lot of the videos, most are often edited to cut out the minutes preceding the alleged "beating" when the subject is afforded numerous opportunities the LEOs have given the subject to comply without violence, and only air the portion where they are forced to go "hands on" and take the subject down. In this particular video, you cannot identify the number of LEOs, the agency (or country) that the LEOs are even from it is so blurry. I don't doubt that it was likely U.S. LEOs and BP agents, but in many other videos, you can't tell anything, and only rely on the emotions and information that the videographer provides.In short, U.S. LEOs are well trained, and the actions on that fateful day were in line with current training policies which always involve the least amount of force necessary to effect an arrest or detention.

Fcassens
Fcassens

ever try to subdue someone high on meth? i have. it's not a one man job. this definitely warrants a thorough investigation,but, until then, i will reserve passing judgement.

EAT SHIT
EAT SHIT

I'm glad they killed that druggie beaner. They probably saved another white girl from being raped!

Broedd2003
Broedd2003

The video AND eyewitness accounts are adequate basis to conclude that the agents murdered this man. The attitudes of many of the people posting here are similar to those of the people at our county jail who allowed an insulin dependent woman to die because she was "withdrawing from heroin".

No name
No name

Hey Snap Tie, you're here because your momma too cross the border. Border Patrol agents are not supposed to be criminals nor terrorists. Your comment is plain out ignorant. What is supposed to separate the United States from other countries is that this nation of justice and not terrorists. You too can fall prey of thugs like these. Your comments are irresponsible and ignorant. To the detriment of the Native Americans, the U.S., whether you like it or not, is a country of immigrants. These agents should encarcerated for a long time. They're simply murderers and terrorists. It doesn't leave you that far behind because you're of the same mind.

Meen Lin
Meen Lin

Sunglasses $15 ..Hand bags $33 ..Crocodile 13 U.S. dollars a T s***, want to buy then please go to this site: ========= http://www.fashiongoods.us =========

Yupitsme
Yupitsme

That was the worst video quality I have ever seen. And the audio was equally as bad. The article touted this video as if you could actually see what they describe in the article. Not true. I think the New Times should employ better journalism and report more accurately about what can and cannot be seen in this video.

Nothing can be seen but a white truck and a black blob that I am assuming is the man who died and the border patrol struggling...I think??? Who knows this video is not worth watching, let alone base such an inflamatory article about.

Rojas
Rojas

poor guy, american police is known for abuse sadisam and owerweight and overall for very low education.i kan feel pain of the guy that was killed.where are humans right.there is no human rights in this planet with the gun on one side.same way nazis killed milions of jewish and other people .feeling of power is why they killed poor guy

Jaimecardenas57
Jaimecardenas57

Oh my God these officers should be hang.. What kind of people are this that do this to a human being-regardles of the problem tha he might have cause this poor man did not desrve this abuse. I hope justice provails and they don't just hide it under the rug.

car seat
car seat

Arizona is a police state full of hateful racists.

guest
guest

Don't break the law and this won't be an issue. Or, National Guard every 1000 yards across the border that shoots when you cross would stop this from happening.

concerned citizen
concerned citizen

I am so greatful to the bystanders for reaching out to try to help Anastasio Rojas. It sickens me to hear his cries, knowing they would be his last. Of course it was excessive force! He died in the hands of the Border Patrol custody. Minimal force to detain! Those were cries of pain, not of resistance. How many Border guards were there? Don't let our government cover this up! I work for the Bureau of Prisons, and most staff are respectful. These sound like rogue guards that feel empowered by their badge. They have to be prosecuted! They need to be in prison, as criminals should.

critic
critic

I've seen better videos taken of Bigfoot. This is laughable. No evidence in this video of anything other than people in the crowd yelling. Then again, they are standing on the Mexican side at the deportation gate, so their opinions of the Border Patrol can be expected to be negative no matter what.

One less Meth addicted criminal for America to worry about.

Holley
Holley

It is sad that a man was killed, and 5 children now have no father. But this man was an illegal immigrant and high. First of all he had no business being here, Second, he was on drugs, no matter what u do to someone that is high out of their mind they do not stop fighting. I am an ER nurse and see it all the time, they develop super power to fight and withstand pain. Our Border patrol and American citizens are being killed, executed, by Mexican drug cartel, and it seems to be sidelined in the news, but someone comes here illegally and fights with our Border Patrol is accidentally killed and everyone is up in arms. As far as I can see it, with the recent uprise in violence down there the officers were completely correct to use any and every means to protect themselves and our country. And thats just what it is..OUR COUNTRY. If you think thats unjust, why dont u wander on down there and stay.. Or maybe take a trip and visit the family of the Border Patrol Agent that was just killed protecting ur ass from this trash.

Geneharris46
Geneharris46

Let's fairly talk about illegal coyotes and drug runners who have shot and killed border guards....this is I believe an attempt to get the attention off of the real issue and try to bring sympathy to false accusations....by the way the accusations would be better received if they were in the soverign language of ENGLISH!!!!

Shawoman
Shawoman

I feel sad that I live in a country that does these things, and then covers up the truth with lies. My heart goes out to the Rojas' family. Regardless of what others think he may or may not have done, he was a human being and deserved to be treated as such, and he certainly should not have been killed over it.

Guest
Guest

well the video didnt actually show anything that i could see... in the midst of some groaning i heard "stop struggling" once or twice but for the rest of the sound it just sounded like someone taking a leak in a toilet. i could not distinguish any shapes except for the car i think this video was taken by a tonka toy camera or something.. i got a cheap cell but it takes better video than whatever that guy was useing

Dalgast
Dalgast

Now thats funny, I don't care who you are.

Laverne_shirley44
Laverne_shirley44

I don't feel sorry for this guy if that is what is going on. They come here illegally and think they have more rights than us citizens. The tape doesn't tell anything. you can't see anything. So how do we know that what the article says is true. There is no evidence that anything bad is going on. I can here people speaking in spanish. How do we know it wasn't a set up. The person you should feel sorry for is the border patrol agent that was killed this week by an illegal entering this country. But that's ok huh. They can kill us but we can't subdu them when they are committing a crime. From what I understand he was higher than a kite on some drug and they were trying to get him under control.It makes me sick when people come here illegally and want symapthy and cry foul. if we went into another country they would do worse to us for mistakenly crossing into thier country. Do you think Mexico would be so kind to us- heck NO !!!!!Mexicans stay out of our country and those here we want you to get out.

Steven
Steven

I just finished watching this video...........that was absolutely uncalled for. What did Rojas do to deserve this? =(

Ramon Daniel Colon
Ramon Daniel Colon

It is very disrespecful that we have that kind of officers in this country. They need to be prosecuted as terrorists as well. Maybe they do not know what terrorism is...shame on them for damaging the image of this nation

David Brookbank
David Brookbank

It's done, Lance. I'll take a million Mexicans to one of you any day. Get yourself a life. And drop the "got a finish my taxes" b.s. The world is moving past you. You and the "values" and "vision" of the US that you purport to hold to are a fiction and to the extent the fiction passed for reality are passing from the stage and with good reason. The US has promoted more murderous fascist imperialism than it has ever promoted or intended to promote "democracy". The cat is out of the bag. The U.S. stands for "us" and there are 300 million of us. The remaining several billion on the planet are long ago tired of strutting peacocks like yourself and the bloody and thieving foreign policy of the US. They, like myself, could careless who you are, what you did, or what you think. Our country's time, like your own, has come and passed. Now we will rot in our own stew, due to our many sins. Finish your "taxes", sit down here and waste some more of your time spitting into the wind. I've dealt with you all that I am interested in.

DavidBrookbank
DavidBrookbank

I read the whole article. But as I said, I didn't have to read more than three sentences to know where it was going to go. Reading it just proved my impression.

As to the immigrant labor that we have grossly exploited for decades -- in jobs that result in repetitive motion injuries, amputations, etc -- and which (the absurd national bravado to the contrary) native-born US citizens do not want to do in numbers necessary to sustain the economy. The fact that these folks are here is a result of long-standing US labor policy which attracted them, long-standing US immigration policy which allowed massive numbers to enter to the convenience of corporations (factories, farms, hotels, construction, restaurants, housekeeping, landscaping, etc, etc, etc), long-standing US corporate and business practice which recruited them in Mexico and assisted them in getting here. You may want to deport them but I and millions don't. And some of us understand that they are the future of the country, be they laborers, doctors, lawyers, senators, or presidents. The boat that brought your people here was not needed for these folks to get here but they are here none the less. Try taking the buses around the country, round them all up and deport them. Then you'll be taking the buses right back around the country to forcibly load up people to do they jobs they were doing. My approach -- legalize everyone of them today. If you think you can shut the border down or even that they US government and business community wants to, go right ahead and try. But in the meantime human beings from Latin America need to get on with their lives just like immigrants from everywhere in the world have. The fact of the matter is that they are getting on with their lives with hard work, sweat, and integrity that I admire. Drag out some examples of bad examples if you like and I will drag out 5 examples of white US born bad examples for every one you find. As a former US vice consul who issued tens of thousands of 10 year multiple issue visas to Mexicans and Salvadorans per US las and policy, I can assure you that US labor and immigration policy has been to have these people be here to work. To now renege on what was essentially a tacit agreement and social contract with those people is just not going to fly. It is going to make us the same scarce number of friends that our self-serving policies of war and empire have made us all over the planet. The cat is out of the bag as to the nature of the US government and people. Yeah, a bunch a nice guys unless they decide they have to invade your country to take out one of their former dictator friends or because your oil or lithium or something else is more important them than they think it is to you.

As for all the widdy-widdy and bla-bla-bla (as they say in Central America) about law enforcement policy and practice, just let folks contribute their stories of the multiple times in law enforcement agencies around the country that those laws and policies and practices were violated often knowingly, intentionally, without remorse and often with more than just a small dose of coverup.

Besides the Otto Zehm case in my hometown of Spokane which you can look up yourself, check out this video. You can be really proud of these boy, can't you Lance? Their attitude that we are all "scurrying cockroaches" (i.e., citizens) and the fact that no one was fired and the incident was not even under investigation speaks volumes about our fascist state at home and our imperialist empire abroad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Will await your comments in support of your brothers in blue, be they in Spokane, Miami, at the political conventions in 2008 in Denver and Minneapolis-St Paul, or on the BART station in Oakland.

Arroyoribera
Arroyoribera

I don't have to do more than read about 3 sentences of this propaganda piece by Lance Savage to know what it and he are about. Nevertheless I will use his structure to comment about his slickly sophisticated defense of US law enforcement and foreign policy arrogance.

As a non-retired, non-law enforcement officer with an ample life working and organizing in the U.S. and in multiple foreign countries, I can tell you that cops don't need to be dealing with an uncooperative, and/or intoxicated or drugged individual to decide that they are "difficult to restrain", and therefore decide to use some good old abusive "blue polyester pile-up", which to uneducated passers-by, to human rights groups, and sometimes juries is clearly a bunch of thug cops piling up on a guy who is on the ground screaming and who is entirely innocent and/or not deserving of the law enforcement administered "street justice". Just as one example, we have the case of Otto Zehm in Spokane, Washington. Beaten, hog-tied, tasered,kneed, and masked, all of which resulted in his death. Thousands upon thousands of examples abound. Putting knees into the back, legs, arms, or neck/head of a citizen (be s/he a protester or a journalist or a teen or an old man or woman) that cops have decided needs to be made an example of is often the best way for cops to intimidate community, the public, or an organized movement. If you are unable to intimidate and control individuals and communities with blow-hard chiefs of police and their slick public relations campaigns then using your bodyweight and knees are tools at hand that crack teeth, damage backs and joints, and make citizens pay a heavy price for thinking that they are free citizens and disabuses them of the idea that law enforcement is subject to any restraint whatsoever in its dealing with communities. As a result, more and more law abiding citizens considered lawless law enforcement to be gangs in blue and are reluctant to call them, fearing the potential outcome for themselves, innocent bystanders and even the alleged criminal.

As for Mexico, the United States clearly needs to get the hell out of Mexico and stay the hell out of Mexico as well as the vast majority of countries around the world where it acts in one interest and one interest alone, that of US corporations and US imperial designs. The people of Mexico and the US need to understand that economic and political actors in both countries have conspired to destroy aspects of our economies that served the people in exchange for globalized, free trade policies combined with police state tactics which have shattered our communities, job markets, and economies. More nations need to act immediately to prohibit the training of the law enforcement by the US law enforcement, military, etc. US training and aid to police forces -- as seen in the rebellions against US backed dictatorships in the Middle East and, in years past, Latin America, Asia and Africa -- have been major elements in the most repressive, anti-democratic state mechanisms in recent modern history. The recent Wikileaks disclosure of so-called US "diplomatic" cables about its coercion of Costa Rican President and Noble Prize winner Oscar Arias after he stopped training of his countries police at the US "School of the Americas" (SOA/WHINSEC) just proves that US "diplomacy" -- when it is not part of outright CIA or military infiltration and subversion -- is not unlike the types of law enforcement brutality that Lance tries to spin into "proper police procedures) and JHBC (justifiable homicide by cop). http://213.251.145.96/cable/2007/11/07SANJOSE1999.html

The competence of US law enforcement, not to mention the solidity of our own "democracy" needs to be called into question given that 1) conditions here have produced the largest prison population in the world and 2) as nation we fuel both ends of the war in Mexico. Our primary ally in Latin America and one of the biggest recipients of US taxpayer military assistance in the world (Colombia) is also a major global drug producer and exporter (not to mention human rights abuser) while the United States is both the major consumer of drugs (be they from Colombia or Mexico) as well as major and willing exporter of weapons to Mexico.

In short, US law enforcement officers are often poorly trained in conflict avoidance and de-escalation, too ready to start an encounter at a grossly escalated level of force, to further escalate situations when uncalled for, and to use deadly force readily to effect an outcome which leaves the victim dead and therefore permanently silenced.

David Brookbank

David Brookbank
David Brookbank

The US Border Patrol has a documented history of abuse and corruption. http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/...Department of JusticeOffice of Public AffairsFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEThursday, June 3, 2010Border Patrol Agent Pleads Guilty to Civil Rights Violation

WASHINGTON – U.S. Border Patrol Agent Eduardo Moreno pleaded guilty today in federal court in Tucson, Ariz., to a federal criminal civil rights charge for assaulting a Mexican national who was in his custody, the Justice Department and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Arizona announced today. Sentencing has been scheduled for Aug. 12, 2010.

The underlying incident occurred on May 10, 2006, while Moreno was on duty at the U.S. Border Patrol Processing Center in Nogales, Ariz. During the plea proceedings and in documents filed in court, Moreno admitted that while escorting the victim at the center, he kicked the victim, struck him in the stomach with a baton, threw him down to ground, and punched him, all without any legitimate law enforcement reason to use force. As a result of the defendant’s actions, the victim suffered bodily injury.

critic
critic

There have been better quality videos of Big Foot and the Lochness monster I think.

Jw85222
Jw85222

If American police are known for abuse, over weight, and low education, what are Mexican police known for? By the way, you are the one that writes like he has a very low education.

CPOMOMMY
CPOMOMMY

This so called video is proof of absolutely nothing other than some guy had a crappy cell and was video taping, well, we saw a car at least, right? How about some real "evidence". Truth-be-told, nobody commenting on this video was there and saw anything, so it's anybody's guess. But I, as an American citizen, have to believe in a justice system provided by our taxpayer dollars. I would take the word of several law enforcement officials over that of an illegal alien stealing entry into our country any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

Guest
Guest

Then simply leave...YOU DON'T BELONG HERE! Better still...GO TO CHINA...They don't allow parasites to cross their borders & they don't allow people in their country to breed like cock roaches! GO HOME!

Guest
Guest

The solution is simple...GO HOME...YOU DON'T BELONG HERE! YOU HAVE INVADED OUR COUNTRY!

Liz
Liz

The dead body of a man is not enough evidence for you. One more skinhead for America to be ashamed about, I would say.

Gann5907
Gann5907

Not all mexicans belong to drug cartels and these poor excuses for border guards deserve to be prosecuted.

Liz
Liz

MY GOD. AND YOU ARE AN ER NURSE.

Janetglennerwin
Janetglennerwin

Well it sure wasn't that man who did the killing, the Border Patrol needs to be supervised.

Janetglennerwin
Janetglennerwin

First off, that is the border patrol comment -- how do we know he was "high". Don';t you know these fuckin cops and I mean any law enforcement personnel LIE THEIR ASSES off. I know quite a few of them. But to treat a human being that way is sadistic and totally uncalled for. Just because he was illegal and/or high does not give anyone the right to take a life. The man was handcuffed behind his back, come on people what could he have done like that to cause harm amongst all of those border patrols. I think they all should be thrown in jail in Mexico NEVER TO BE HEARD OF AGAIN!

Lalala
Lalala

Perhaps you should learn how to spell before you invoke the "sovereign" language of English, whatever that is supposed to mean. Idiot.

Gann5907
Gann5907

Are you a christian woman? I think not.You are so full of hate and anger you can only think like an idiot.God forgive all you idiots.

David
David

So sad that people like you exist. Really, no one, NO ONE deserves that treatment. Human beings are supposedly so evolved and intellectual beings, yet there are people like you that have no real compassion for a fellow human. So many people are just trying to live the best lives they can and provide for the families with the short time they have on this earth. And just because they don't have a social security number, they deserve to be tasered or beaten to death? As if in God's eyes, they don't matter at all? Everyone has a story, a life, and personal experiences. You act like an animal because you don't even consider that. This world is as ugly as it is because of attitudes like yours.

Andy Carrillo
Andy Carrillo

How animalistic these folks get don't they? They can sit here and type on their computer while sipping their cafe latte and applaud when a human being is crying out for help. May God bless you with the kindness during your final hours as you bless on others. Life is precious, and God is just.

your mama!
your mama!

You are a bastard no one has the right to kill a human being!

Bob1
Bob1

How can you tell anything from this video? All you can see is a white truck and hear a guy screaming.

Bigtman30
Bigtman30

If you just finished watching the video, then you saw absolutely nothing but a dark video with people yelling. You say it was absolutely uncalled for??? If you had not read the story and ONLY watched the video, you would have NO IDEA what the video even was of. So shut it!!!!

Lance Savage
Lance Savage

Well well well..... I tried to hold a polite, logical, discussion with you, but you (again) fail to acknowledge the points that we seem to be in actual agreement with, and you fail to come up with any sort of reasonable counter-argument to some of my facts / comments, but instead choose to resort to childish, immature, insults and name calling. This (sadly) reaffirms my thoughts that you are an insane, closed-minded Socialist (that even the Socialists likely steer clear of). I clearly stated that I believe that we have a LONG history of going into countries that don't really want us there and trying to "help", with the consequences being disastrous, and that we need to get out of most of the foreign countries we are trying to bring "democracy" to, but you glide right past that and insult me. Are your feelings hurt because some FED caught your hand in the "cookie jar" and you got fired from being a visa stamping Junior Officer Visa monkey? It's clear that you hate the United States, and everything that it stands for- why not go to Mexico or some other country where all of your "Amigos" are? Will they not let you in? Oh, and please take them with you when you go! We do need the illegals here (I explained it 6 ways from Sunday in my previous posts), but you fail to read or acknowledge that I state this- I just believe that immigrants should come here legally, and that the current illegals need to leave, be fined or wait the prescribed period of time as punishment for breaking U.S. law, and be given an opportunity to come back legally, with a valid U.S. visa after learning some English, getting a criminal history check run, and be screened for diseases like TB. There are millions of criminals, sex predators, etc. that are illegals- not to mention the ones that have TB and other health problems that would have been screened for and treated if they were legal immigrants. Many diseases and illnesses that have been all but extinct are popping up again b/c of the illegals bring them over with them- again, they appear to not care about the U.S., they seem that they are just here for the $$$ to send back to their homeland. You can insult me all you want, but I know that in my life I chose a path that let me make a positive difference in people's lives- I worked on Ground Zero for 6 months picking up bits of human flesh for genetic identification, helped rescue over 20,000 Americans trapped in wars and genocide in the Middle East and the Balkans, and I have helped broker peace treaties, arrested human smugglers, and free enslaved persons here in the U.S.- what can you say.... You can always say that your contribution was to pass venomous, insulting judgment on people that you know nothing about. Sad, sad, sad. At least you are just crazy enough that people can see you and your crazy ass beliefs, insults, and Socialist agenda coming a mile away and run! (and that people know that anything posted to this rag's website is suspect to begin with). Even my Mexican -American friends think you are crazy and detrimental to the plight of the entire Hispanic community- legal and illegal. Please, please, please take your meds before you start spouting off again and embarrass yourself any further. I will agree with your last point- trying to have an intelligent conversation with you is (sadly) "spitting into the wind".

Pulling the proverbial "chute" and unsubscribing.

Regards,

Lance.

 Motor
Motor

In the human rights act it was not a legal action,These patrolmen should be jailed for murder.That many men on one person was murder,I see the influx of imigrants needs to be taken seriously but this was uncalled for.

like it or not,in Gods eyes these men should be pursicuted

guest
guest

Given the choice between Law Enforcement and the proven criminal, what side is the credible one? Once again, her point that she has personally witnessed someone withstanding pain and fighting is her point, not that you have a dislike for these "fuckin cops". You make it sound like you know them, maybe you've had some run-ins that make you a little biased?

Frank6801
Frank6801

i love uyour mama you make sense

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