Craft Beer Can't Get Better Without Constructive Criticism

By Zachary Fowle Thu., Jan. 12 2012 at 9:00 AM

Categories: Brew Review

mybeerpix.com

Hypothetical situation: A friend of yours, who recently decided to buy a kit to brew his own beer at home, has presented you with a bottle of his first batch and asked for your honest opinion.

This beer is flat, sour and looks like it was brewed with 51 percent spittle. What do you tell him? Do you tell him it's the best beer ever, and he should quit his current job to become a full-time brewer so he can distribute this ambrosia among the masses? Or do you maybe give him some constructive criticism in the hopes that his next attempt improves upon this one?

The craft beer community has been harrumphing about the topic since Tuesday, when a post about "overrated breweries" on the beeradvocate.com (a free website on which users can post beer reviews and discuss topics related to beer) garnered this response from Dogfish Head Craft Brewery owner Sam Calagione (grammatical errors have been fixed because I'm a nice guy):

It's pretty depressing to frequently visit this site and see the most negative threads among the most popular. This didn't happen much ten years ago when craft beer had something like a 3 percent market share. Flash forward to today and true indie craft beer now has a still-tiny but growing market share of just over 5 percent. Yet so many folks that post here still spend their time knocking down breweries that dare to grow. It's like that old joke: "Nobody eats at that restaurant anymore, it's too crowded." Except the "restaurants" that people shit on here aren't exactly juggernauts. In fact, aside from Boston Beer, none of them have anything even close to half of one percent market share. The more that retailers, distributors, and large industrial brewers consolidate, the more fragile the current growth momentum of the craft segment becomes. The more often the BeerAdvocate community becomes a soap box for outing breweries for daring to grow beyond its insider ranks, the more it will be marginalized in the movement to support, promote, and protect independent, American craft breweries.
It's interesting how many posts that refer to Dogfish being overrated include a caveat like "except for Palo...except for Immort," etc. We all have different palates, which is why it's a great thing that there are so many different beers. At Dogfish we've been focused on making "weird" beers since we opened and have taken our lumps for being stylistically indifferent since day one. I bet a lot of folks agree that beers like Punkin Ale (since 1995), Immort Ale (wood-aged smoked beer) since 1995, Chicory Stout (coffee stout) since 1995, Raison D'être (Belgian brown) since 1996, Indian Brown Ale (dark IPA) since 1997, and 90 Minute (DIPA) since 2000 don't seem very weird anymore. That's in large part because so many people who have been part of this community over the years championed them and helped us put them on the map. These beers, and all of our more recent releases like Palo Santo, Burton Baton and Bitches Brew, continue to grow every year. We could have taken the easy way out and just sold the bejeezus out of 60 Minute to grow, but we like to experiment and create and follow our own muse. Obviously there is an audience that appreciates this as we continue to grow. We put no more "hype" or "expert marketing" behind our best-selling beers than we do our occasionals. We only advertise in a few beer magazines and my wife Mariah oversees all of our Twitter/Facebook/dogfish.com stuff. We have mostly grown by just sharing our beer with people who are into it (at our pub, great beer bars, beer dinners, and fests) and let them decide for themselves if they like it. If they do we hope they tell their friends about. We hope a bunch of you that are going to EBF will stop by our booth and try some of the very unique new beers we are proudly bringing to market like Tweason'ale (a champagne-esque, gluten-free beer fermented with buckwheat honey and strawberries) and Noble Rot (a sort of saison brewed with Botrytis-infected Viognier Grape must). One of these beers is on the sweeter side and one is more sour. Knowing each of your palates is unique, you will probably prefer one over the other. That doesn't mean the one you didn't prefer sucked. And the breweries you don't prefer but are growing don't suck either. Respect Beer.

With one part of Calagione's statement, I wholeheartedly agree. Beer geeks are very much like band geeks, writing off a brewery when it becomes successful because they can no longer earn hipster points (which, I imagine, are useful for buying tight pants and grease for fixed-gear bikes) for supporting obscure, unknown spots most people have never heard of. This is a mindset that runs rampant among an outspoken fringe of the craft beer-drinking community, and it has to stop.

HOWEVER. There is an underlying theme to the post above I have to disagree with -- that every craft brewer, big and small, must be supported if the community is to continue its success.

Tags:

beer advocate, dogfish head, sam calagione

Write Comment

Email to Friend

Print Article

Let's not pretend that using terms like "fizzy wheat beers" and "fizzy weak beer" are anything short of a shot especially after he says that people who only like them don't have a good palate. To be fair, I went back and read his post more closely and I agree with what most of what he said (and I'm 100% in Sam's camp as well) but I don't get the negative connotation used for wheat beers. It seems to be counterproductive if you're trying to illustrate to people that bad beer isn't a style you don't like if you're going to say that people who don't like big and bold beers have poor palates.
Thank you.
I always say drink what you like. Those who can, brew, those who can't talk shit anonymously about breweries on the internet. Although I do agree with Zach, at the end of the day, taste is subjective. Always try things for yourself, never fall into the trap of not trying something that someone else doesn't like. My two cents.
I didn't see him bash fizzy wheat beers, only state that he has seen people who only rate those beers as good because anything bigger was too much for them. He does go on to say (and he is 100% right about this) that people need to review or rate a beer based on what it is. He gives the example of beers like Budweiser. They are Standard American Lagers, and while the are not my personal choice, they are the classic examples of that beer style should be. While personally, I think there are better American Lagers out there than Bud or Miller, I also would not really call them bad beers, because for they are, they are spot on. To use Sickofshitbeer's response, he says that he is on par with 95% of America, and while I disagree to point to that, he does say that most people like the less flavorful beers. I think he is right there. But is he right when he says all the other beers are shit? No. He personally does not like them, and that's his choice. But if he were to try something and Bell's Two Hearted Ale, then with his palette go on to review it on BA saying it is a shitty beer also is not fair. It's a good beer, if you like IPA's. The beer needs to be rated as an IPA and not compared to a Heffe. If he like Heffe's, he probably is qualified to give a fairly accurate rating of a heffe. I wouldn't take his word on Bigfoot Barleywine though. Also, it needs to be said though that if you are not really a craft beer lover, what does a person think qualifies them to be a craft beer expert? There are many of those types on the Internet. I do agree with the statement that to really understand beer, you should brew it, or at least really understand the brewing process. Generally this is right, but I know a few phenomenal beer judges who don't brew. They are few and far between, most beer judges also brew, but those types are out there and have a great understanding of beer.
I don't think the point of Sam's comments was to say that anyone should just blindly support the beers themselves or stroke the brewer's egos. From the way I took what he wrote, and what the article from Ladies of Craft Beer are saying is that slamming an entire brewery because they have not become trendy or edgy is not really a fair assessment. I can agree with his frustration with sites like Beer Advocate and Rate Beer. They are a good source to get a general idea of what may be trending, but I would never actually go there to see if a beer that is not big, Belgian, or rare is really any good. A prime example is that some of the lower ABV and light beer styles do not get nearly the rave reviews of the big, Belgian, or rare beers. To support my case, look at Cream Ale on BA. The best beer on there gets a rating of 88. Which is Good. But that is the BEST cream ale out there? Hmmm, OK let's look at the American Barleywine style on BA. Oh wow, the best Barleywine gets an average rating of 96. That tells me a lot about the majority of people on there, and exactly what they are after. They want big, bold, and extreme. I look to blogs to get more accurate reviews of beers that are not extreme, I find the reviews there a lot more honest and more accurate. However, I do agree with you that you should never give false reviews just to keep a positive outlook on craft beer as a whole. You need to maintain your integrity, otherwise you are not doing anyone any good. But when you have people ripping apart an Oktoberfest because it's not hoppy for example, then giving it low score on there, you get an idea of what sort of "experts" you are dealing with there, and you can just imagine what they think is over-rated. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you still need to take the beer for what it is, not what you thought it should be.
they have to brew toward the market SOSB. I don't support their beer but I support their business plan. It is means of survival.
Sam is a flag who once again sells his soul for publicity. After watching a documentary on this guy, he contradicts himself early and often. Vying for more attention, he has now taken to beer advocate. Sam would sell his soul 100 times over if he could for the sake of being a flat out poser and gaining 1% of the market. I will never support his beer. ever.
I think my picture (in your header) needs a qualifier. The "beer" was a test batch of Bud Chelada. Clam juice isn't my favorite flavor. Cheers! Eric
I go with douche bag friends that like the beer? I don't want to brew my own beer and I damn sure wouldn't want my career to be in an over saturated market with average beers being brewed!!!
Why do you go to Four Peaks if you don't like their beer? If you think Phoenix has no beer up to your standards; just brew your own. If you are really sure of yourself, mortgage everything you own to brew commercially and then put on your bullet-proof vest as the bullets spray toward you. I doubt you would like it.
I find it hilarious that you bash "fizzy wheat beers" and right off hefeweizens off as practically a non-beer for your sophisticated palate. The ironic thing is that it takes a good palate to appreciate something delicate like a good German hefe or pilsner or Kölsch. I can't even agree or disagree with the rest of your post be cause you ruined or own credibility by ripping good beers.
My pallet range is on par with 95 percent of the countries and you guys keep trying to ram shit beer down my pallet, you get all butt hurt because we say it sucks well there is a reason for the growth of breweries in the US to migrate to simple lager, they taste better and they are affordable to the masses. So if 1000 guys that come into your brew pub a week cant keep your door open you might want to get out of the business because your beer sucks! I will still be sipping on my hefe watching 10 more brewpubs open and close because they cant brew a beer that sets them apart.
Wash! Your basically dealing with a bunch of drunks that drink non craft beer and like to bitch on websites. If it is better than the rest it would get a spot on the truck, instead its only decent and just like the 1000 other micro brews in town, leaving your target market to complain. Your target market for the most part is a bunch of drunk males who are currently in the non craft market. I believe its a true game of survival of the fittest and you better have deep pockets and a better than decent bee. If the pack is still saying your beer sucks you better you might want to listen and have a better marketing plan that limits web sight exposure!
I was always taught that 'if you can't say something nice - don't say anything at all! It is one thing to sit with the brewer and discuss the virtues and pitfall of the beer in hand - but tho 'shout' your opinion from Social Media - just isn't right. Remember - opinions are like *ss holes - ever body has one!
There is nothing "constructive" about the criticism plaguing Beer Advocate, Twitter and other social Media outlets with regard to craft brewing. Expressing dislike for a beer based on style, flaws or personal taste is not the issue. There are heaps of beers I don't care for. Brewers understand and accept this type of criticism and while hard to hear, it is expected. <I believe this might have been the point expressed by the Ladies OCB writer but I did not read their post personally>: Generalized bashing of brewers and breweries that are the rants of immature, socially inept, cowards hiding behind a computer screen; are not constructive. Put these "self-proclaimed beer experts" in front of a live audience of true craft beer advocates and they will crap their skinny jeans before being able to speak a word of criticism. Do you really think comments like "I would not water my plants with your shitty beer" or "your beer tastes like asparagus piss" are helpful or constructive? I think not. This is an example of some of the utter crap we witness on a regular basis. Technology is a wonderful thing but it provides anonymity to people with motives that are non-constructive and at times even criminal. Just look at the increase in pedophilia in the US as it correlates to Internet access. When these nasty beings had to show their faces in public to feed their disease; it was at far greater consequence. With a computer hiding their identity, it has become far too easy to act on the sickness. Yes…I realize this is far from a like comparison, but unfortunately the principle is the same. It's easy to spout off from a computer keyboard than it is from a podium. This is what separates the BA "Boys" from real men & women that offer up descriptions of the characteristics that do not appeal to them. Craft brewers and breweries take big financial chances to give beer drinkers in the United States choice. It is high risk, expensive, stressful and often lacking in financial reward. No one is forcing people to buy or drink these beers. We have the freedom to choose in America. If you don't like something; don't drink it again. Whether I like a beer or not, I respect the gumption behind the source. I do not want to discourage others from venturing into this very difficult field. I support those who take risks to follow their passion. We would be in a sad state if no one wanted to pursue this trade. My palate, pallet, palette... (Yes I'm talking to you Conan the Grammarian) is my own personal taste. My opinion differs from some of my most respected beer friends. So what? No one died and made me the God of beer tasting; especially if my review is built on insulting rhetoric. To the douche-bags on Beer Advocate and other web-based forums that throw out petty and trite criticisms, I challenge you to get up on a stage at GABF and spout this beer snobbery dogma to the people who celebrate the craft instead of bashing it. It is doubtful you will get much support but even more unlikely that you would even have the balls to step on to the stage to begin with. It is also unlikely that you would mortgage your house (or your parent’s for those <most> still living there) to start your own craft brewery. That takes courage and people who rant behind a computer screen don’t know the definition of it. I for one would boo your happy bum off the stage. Beer Advocate...you offer heaps of valuable information to the industry and you have earned your place. This criticism is not of BA. I do however, wish you would take these negative threads down. I also realize this is a "freedom of speech" conflict in the US. There is no easy answer. Search "Beer Geek Meets Girl" on YouTube to get an real idea of what these "beer critics" look like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZbE8ebQdwE disclaimer: I make mistakes when I type. I misspell at times and I use words out of context. I am not perfect. #enoughsaid
Sam's post wasn't about saying bad beer is good. It's about people shitting on breweries like Dogfish Head for "selling out" being being hipster douche knuckles.
In Louisiana we have the Beer Buddha, a blog by a guy who thinks that he is the end all, be all of craft critics. Although he has friends that work at Abita(15th largest in US) he constantly dogs them. I have a friend opening a brewery and he is so concerned about what this dipsh*t thinks. Unfortunately my friend thinks that so many people read his blog that a bad review could destroy him before he's even open. I don't believe any craft brewer sets out to make crappy beer. If you don't like it you don't have the right to go on a personal crusade to destroy their reputation, just don't drink it again. Opinions are like a**holes, and you should keep yours clean.
Actually Sam and LoCB are right, it seems on internet forums there is a "go with the pack" mentality and bashing people(companies) is on top of the list. I RARELY even go to beeradvocate anymore because it seems half the the people commenting just copy and paste what someone else has stated, trying to "act" like they have some level of knowledge about beer because they took the effort to buy it, but not the time to learn what they beer or style represents. I can almost guarantee less then 10% have even the slightest idea on how to judge a beer for what it is, not for what they like, and when you are posting ratings on beer it needs to be about the beer, not your personal idea of what the brewer "should" have done. It's like the mass of beer snobs bashing american domestic lagers as being bad beers because they have low flavor and high carbonation... realize that it's what they are designed to be and they fit that design EXACTLY, they aren't trying to be craft beer. I see all sorts of ratings on porter and stouts who have only rated fizzy wheat beers as "good", because they don't have the palate for bigger, bolder beers. What people need to do is get off their high horses and stop degrading things they themselves can't, and haven't done. Brewers like Sam push the envelope of what craft beers can be, they aren't for everyone, and it doesn't make them bad. If you don't like a brand because you can't handle the flavors then fine, but don't say its bad because you just don't get it. As far as people using price to make a comparison for beers. Just because a beer it's 20 bucks, doesn't mean it is supposed to pour gold out after you finish it. The dollar amount for beers is controlled by MANY MANY avenues, and the brewer themselves are just the start. After brewers cost, wholesalers pay shipping and work in marketing, operating costs and profit, then the retailer adds in their markups for profit, operating. Making and selling beer isn't free, making craft beers just adds to that tenfold. Can a beer consumer who doesn't brew beer really offer criticism on how a brewer does it? Do they honestly know the intent, plans and design of the beers they are drinking? I don't think you can, in fact I know you can't and thats why there are guidelines on what beer styles should be like. Bad beer makes you sick, has contaminants in it, is spoiled, has bugs in it, mice, severe off flavors from poor temperature control or bad ingredients. Bad beer is NOT beer that doesn't suit your palate, it IS NOT beer that you don't understand. @"sickofshitbeer". You're a heffeweizen beer drinker, its the weak fizzy beer of craft,(lets call it entry level or gateway) try not to assume you know what others are about because I can promise dam near anything over pale ales are out of your palate range. @"beerforthedaddy", it's not the beer snobs who ruin the enjoyment of beer, its the uninformed and uneducated, spouting filth about companies when they have no knowledge nor the palate to make informed judgments. Think of it like a kid playing with tinkertoys, telling an engineer how to build a skyscraper.
I think you're exactly the type of person the LadiesOCB article is trying to support, ShitBeerSucks. All small breweries want to do is get their decent old fashioned heff to you that sells out locally. They just can't get a spot on the truck.
Exactly. We're not saying that all beer should get blind praise. Far from it, actually. Just we do more of a service telling people what's good that they should try so they can go out and try it, rather than what's bad to avoid...so that they can avoid it? Avoiding beer doesn't help turn people on to craft beer. Also, it's just the idea that many beer snobs push that, if they don't like it, it's not good and they'll tell you at length why it's crap. Constructive criticism is one thing, but putting down everyone's opinion who likes something you don't is different. That's what's to be avoided.
Interesting read
i agree with you! There is definitely a segment of craft beer "snobs" that kill the fun and enjoyment for others.
I believe that beer snobbery is already running rampant and that if we don't try honey wheat black mombo jumba with a hint of mouse crap and pumpkin spice then we are looked down upon. I'm a Hefe-Wizen fan let me enjoy my beer in peace!
Produce a Quality Product and it will speak for itself, even if it only represnets .00001 % of the market. I will pay $10.00 if it is worthy of the price, and have done so on a few occasions. Micro Brew Houses believe that everything that they put out is the greatest thing to pass the lips, when in reality "not so much"!
I agree with DrinkCraftBeer there... I think the point both Sam and the LoCB are trying to make is that using terms like "over rated" do a disservices to the industry and the brewers. I don't think anyone would suggest that we in the craft beer community should blindly support brewers that consistently put out a bad product, or voice our opinions on the quality of what is being produced. But tastes are certainly subjective. You may have no problem paying $9 or $10 for a beer you love that I can't stand, but I am not going to say that means your taste is lacking. As for those "tired of brewers..." doing whatever, fine. Don't buy their products. There are plenty others to choose from.
I think you're partly missing the point of the Ladies of Craft Beer article. What I seemed to read was that it's better for the craft beer industry to promote the good, rather than rag on the bad. Constructive criticism is fine, but that can easily turn into non-constructive criticism where self-anointed beer experts rip apart every beer. It's a fine line to walk as, for craft beer as an industry to grow, more mainstream consumers will have to start drinking it. Nothing turns those people off like the idea of the "wine snob" and beer has to be careful that the idea of the "beer snob" isn't perpetuated to the point where people think that's who drinks craft beer.
A-freaking-men! Every time I go to Four Peaks, I experience this first hand. their beers are mediocre at best, yet you can hardly ever get a seat there, and they charge top dollar. I'm still waiting for someone in Phoenix to make a killer beer that has the capability to compete nationally. SunUp's Oatmeal Stout is about as close as it gets for me, but they seem to rarely have it.
DogFishHead makes some delicious IPA!
I'm sick of local Microbrewer's tossing out a crap products, charging $7 to $8 per pint and hipsters lining up by the droves because It's the cool "thing to do". Shit Bier is Shit Bier no matter how cool it might seem!
100% agree here Zach. Sometimes people make a beer you just don't like, and there is no point to say it is good when you don't think so. If I don't like a beer, I won't just bash the brewery or brewer, I will just say i don't like that beer. I will still try their other products and make an opinion of each one on its own. I like honest feedback on my homebrews. That way I can try and modify the next recipe, if it is something that I agree with.