Joe Arpaio's School-Patrolling Posse Not POST Certified; I.E., They Ain't Cops

posse.jpg
A posse member (or a posse's member) at work during a 2003 MCSO prostitution sting

Kudos to Sheriff Joe Arpaio for successfully monopolizing the paranoia surrounding the mass killings in Sandy Hook by sending his army of Depends-wearin', gun-totin' grumpy geezers out to patrol the perimeters of some schools in the Valley.

See also:
-Would You Want One of Joe Arpaio's Armed Posse-People at Your Child's School?
-Joe Arpaio's Posse People Starting Armed School Patrols; Which Schools Yet Unknown

Of course, the first day didn't turn out too well, with various local news agencies reporting confusion among school officials and parents as to what the heck the posse will be doing.

A solid question to ask, given the posse's less-than-stellar record.

This record includes posse members' involvement in a big 2003 prostitution sting, where some posse dudes availed themselves of handjobs and other services of alleged hos. As a result, then Maricopa County Attorney Rick Romley refused to prosecute 60 persons nabbed in the process.

Add to that, past controversies over where proceeds from the pink underwear sales go, the criminal backgrounds of some posse members themselves, and the posse's recent participation in Arpaio's infamous immigration sweeps.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you'd have to be seriously uninformed, and just plain stupid to be reassured by the latest MCSO public relations stunt.

Hello, posse members are not cops, and do not possess the authority of police officers.

Basically, they're just old farts with badges and uniforms that look just like sheriff's deputies uniforms. Sometimes they have guns.

Arpaio does as much as possible to blur the line between a posse member and an actual peace officer. The latter being trained at an academy certified by the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board.

A successful recruit completes "a minimum of 585 hours of mandated training", according to POST's website, "successfully [completes] all of the academy requirements," and finally, passes "a Comprehensive Final Examination to become AZPOST certified."

But Arpaio would have you believe that all he has to do is wave his wrinkled palm, and say the magic words to allow any doofus to sidestep all of that POST hooey and, essentially, become a part-time cop.

"They have full law enforcement authority, once I mobilize them," Arpaio told Channel 12 news anchor Mark Curtis during a recent interview.

Um, not really, Joe. Not according to AZ POST Executive Director Lyle Mann.

"They are not law enforcement officers," Mann told me of the posse members when I called, asking for his comment.


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34 comments
cr0sh
cr0sh

Hell, is Arpaio AZPOST certified? I seem to recall, at one time (2010?), speculation that he wasn't...

wvehlewald
wvehlewald

Writ of Prohibition is in order to prohibit these illegal acts.

wvehlewald
wvehlewald

One more thing.  One might argue that they are acting with lawful authority.  However, there is no legal authority that gives the volunteer posse the right to impersonate a peace officer.  If there is would some provide it?  Second, Arpaio does not have the authority to deputize these people.  He is exceeding the scope of his authority.

wvehlewald
wvehlewald

ARS 13-2411 is the cite for Impersonation of a peace officer.

wvehlewald
wvehlewald

Why is it illegal:  Police impersonation is an act of falsely portraying oneself as a member of the police, for the purpose of deception.   ARS provides:  "Impersonating a peace officer means, without lawful authority, pretends to be a peace officer and engages in any conduct with the intent to induce another to submit to the person's pretend authority or to rely on the person's pretend acts."  The issue here is the "INTENT TO INDUCE ANOTHER TO SUBMIT TO THE PERSON'S PRETEND AUTHORITY OR TO RELY ON THE PERSON'S PRETEND ACTS.  The example I just provided meats the intent element of this crime.  Am I wrong?

wvehlewald
wvehlewald

Example:  If I was driving down the road and one of these volunteers drove up behind me, I would have no other belief in my mind that I was being tailed by a Maricopa County Sheriff's Deputy.  This is illegal.

wvehlewald
wvehlewald

It is my opinion that we are all missing the crux of the issues involved   The issues are two fold: 1. Are they POST certified, and 2. Is there deliberate deception on the part of Arpaio as to the authority of these volunteers.  First, they are not certified by AZPOST and this is a fact stated by Arpaio.  Second, there is a deliberate deception being perpetrated on citizens as to the volunteers true identity and authority.  It is a violation of ARS 13-2411 to impersonate a peace officer.  Arpaio has clothed them in Maricopa County Sheriff Deputy clothes, cuffs, radios, etc. and they drive sheriff cars clearly marked as Maricopa County Sheriff.  Although you may impersonate with lawful authority this is not one of those circumstances.

Although Arpaio states that they are volunteers and they are meant as a deterrent they are not clearly marked as volunteers.  They are, in fact, marked as Maricopa County Sheriff's Deputies and drive the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department cars clearly marked as such.  It is the deception that is the issue.

Dontbelieveit
Dontbelieveit topcommenter

Fucking chomos and gay caballeros ,aint that a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

BTW I finally figured out what I wanted to say about these posse people.. I remember where I heard of these things the first time. In SE PA some of the DuPonts (you know the Chemical giant) live in the area. One of them named John DuPont was very rich, very inbred and very crazy. He bought a car of the same make as the local police departments and built it into a working police car. IT had lights, sirens, a shotgun mounted inside, etc. He usually patrolled the grounds of his mansion but every so often he'd get out of his car and blast away with the shotgun. When a neighbor called the police when they arrived he almost shot them, thinking they were "Nazis" and that's what he was shooting at apparently, Nazis. (BTW as an aside shortly after this incident John DuPont killed an Olympic wrestler. He's either in a loony bin, or in prison I can't remember which. I also want to mention that I have met some of the DuPonts in a business way and they were polite and didn't seem as batshit crazy as John DuPont.. so don't judge a book by it's cover or a family by some of it's more whacked out and inbred members)

papahutch2000
papahutch2000

i always refused to use or allow the word 'pig' back then, but now  i may.  thinking of the Beatles song, eating pork and bacon, and shooting at will.

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

basically after reading the article, this will do nothing to stop anything from happening. If they do stop something from happening I will bet there will be some legal issues... and lots of expensive lawsuits.

papahutch2000
papahutch2000

Clowns with automatic weapons. Geezer patrol.  Try to imagine who these people are.  Just try.  With full auto weapons.  Will some be on horses?

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

BTW the above picture, I really didn't know that during prostitution rings they allow the cops to be naked. Pretty sure that seems like entrapment if you ask me. 

donnagratehouse
donnagratehouse

The younger guys who join the posse really scare me. Lot of George Zimmerman types who are dying to be cops but can't get on the force. 

DNichols
DNichols

Arpaio allowed over Four Hundred cases of reported Child Molesting, and Rape to go un-investigated for years.

Now that this School safety issue is in the National Media Spotlight, here comes Media Whore Arpaio to try and get part of the attention.

Even at the risk of School Children being placed in harms way with Arpaio's non-vetted Looneys armed and dangerous in Schools?!

Parents should pull there children out of Arpaio's Dangerous Media Circus!

number6
number6

Yeah I feel much safer with the George Zimmermans of Arizona in our schools.

LegitQuestions
LegitQuestions

The unfortunate part is that this is not a bad idea.  If the Pima County Sheriff's Office proposed it and assigned Pima County Sheriff’s Auxiliary Volunteers to patrol around schools it would likely be a no-big-deal.  The Pima County Sheriff’s Auxiliary Volunteers already have a patrol division that patrols parks, mall parking lots, etc. so adding schools would be no big deal.

The unfortunate problem is that this good idea was proposed by a bad man for bad reasons and, as documented by Lemons, the MCSO Posse is a bad organization and its pay-for-play admissions allows for bad people to become members.  In a normal world, with a relatively normal law enforcement organization this would be a no brainer.  In our world with Arpaio at the helm of the MCSO, this is a huge cause for concern.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows topcommenter

Go to "The Daily Show" website and search for "Really Old Cops".

It's about the actual Sun City MCSO Posse!

Joe's band of misfits was barely qualified to help people find their cars in mall parking lots last month!

cassityg32
cassityg32

Yet this incompetent man keeps getting re elected

MotherJones
MotherJones

Keep these idiot Joe fanatics away from my kids, please. And Joe can stay away, too, while he's at it.

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

@papahutch2000 I know what the posse members are like near Cave Creek. One idiot had a pickup truck that was painted black that had a single blue light on it and he almost nailed me head on on Cave Creek Road. 

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

@LegitQuestions maybe, but I dislike anything the MCSO does, esp to get publicity. I dont know if I would trust these people to be trained properly. In fact on line I have already proposed something similar to this. However I started it should be run by the State IE State Police, so here in Arizona that would be DPS.. and under my plan the state police agencies would be tasked with the training. I however am still nervous here in AZ, I mean DPS doesn't know how to use the pusher bars their cars come with.... 

MotherJones
MotherJones

@LegitQuestions Agreed. MCSO is a sloppy organization. And this whole thing is being sloppily handled. Just like the lady in the photo. If that is a lady.

Warrior-X
Warrior-X

@WhoKnows That old video (1999) really cracked me up. It's an oldie (1999) but still funny. I wonder how you found out about that one.

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

@pszymeczek @ptcgaz ah, I didn't know that. I am not surprised tho. He was very old and VERY sick, he had something else wrong with him, I remember it from his trial, but I dont remember what it was. 

papahutch2000
papahutch2000

@ptcgaz @papahutch2000 egg-zactky,  we had one of those years ago up in a Rim town, a mormon mafia guy, an old blue jeep with hidden lights behind the grill.  took pride in being a stealth cop.  don't even know if he had legal credentials. he had a line of dps crash helmets in his garage. they liked to gather and drink and watch porn and inventory their weapons for the hippie holocaust.  they also liked to molest women,knowing that they could get away with it.  


papahutch2000
papahutch2000

@PTCGAZ @papahutch2000 Still hoping that Paul Rubin will find out who killed Rob Krenz and his dog.  Got a hunch that the easy answer is not the right answer.  He was armed and had a good dog.  It had to be somebody he trusted.

papahutch2000
papahutch2000

@ptcgaz @papahutch2000 although i love Mexico, i am always paranoid about the fact that the cops and the bandidos are at times interchangeable, armed with autos and knowing you are helpless. long history of MCSO lawlessness, detailed at length over the years by New Times.

ptcgaz
ptcgaz

@papahutch2000 @ptcgaz this guy had an F-150 ( or maybe 250) all the badges were removed because he had it painted black.. probably at MAACO. It had the official decals on it and stuff, but this guy was not even close to a cop. He ran a red light with no lights or anything.. in fact what annoyed me the most was the fact that his headlights were flashing. I didn't know it was legal for civilians to get those. I seem to remember  a landscaper got in trouble for having those a few years ago. Regardless, they are reckless and not real police. I dont know about them molesting people, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's sorta like how all those pussy HA people come on and try and ignore the fact that HA have been known to do similar things, minus the pretending to be the law part.. they don't act like police they just don't think any laws apply to them. 

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