Joe Arpaio's Victim Deborah Braillard: Family Agrees to $3.2 Million Settlement, ABC15 Reports

lorialouk

this sherriff and jail needs to be closewd down and new hirees are in order

lorialouk

how can this happen in america?

blessed2003plus

How can anyone with a conscience vote to re-elect this guy?How?

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

1 Like

this is a serious question for anybody (please back up your answer with links or resources, so i can read more about this). if the board shoots down the pay out for Braillard, where does the case go from there? who pays it and how?

LegitQuestions

@danzigsdaddy

The lawsuit remains active and continues to proceed towards the scheduled trial date with both sides conducting discovery and doing trial preparation. If they haven't settled by the trial date they can move to continue (reschedule) the trial date or they can try the lawsuit and submit it to the jury to render a verdict.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@LegitQuestions thank you, that helps. let me make sure i have it right though. they offered the settlement, she accepted. they then want the BOS to approve it. if the BOS does not approve, it will end up going to trial (which MCSO does not want to happen) and if it goes to trial and they lose (i say if, but everything is pointing to her winning) then the county has no choice in the matter of payment on whatever is awarded. is that pretty much right?

MaskedMagician1967

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy I'm not sure, but I think I found something.

Arizona Revised Statute 11-251 permits the Board of Supervisors to authorize the payment, and I think Arizona Revised Statute 11-626 permits the County Treasurer to issue the payment, as long as at least one Supervisor votes on it.

I would check azleg.gov for further info.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@MaskedMagician1967 but who pays if they say no?

MaskedMagician1967

@danzigsdaddy Yeah I know. Wilcox's lawyer argued her settlement was a contract. IDK about this one.

As I said earlier, ARS 11-626 is what's at issue in the Wilcox case.

MaskedMagician1967

2 Like

@danzigsdaddy This you may find interesting:

ARS 11-450 does NOT excuse the county shurf from liability in cases of negligence or misconduct. Here's the full text of the statute, as it appears on azleg.gov:

"No direction or authority from a party to a sheriff in respect to the execution of process or return thereof, or to any act or omission relating thereto, shall discharge or excuse the sheriff from liability for neglect or misconduct, unless in writing and signed by the party or his attorney."

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@MaskedMagician1967 i appreciate the reply, let me know, i'm just curious. i know they havent paid wilcox yet either. with the braillard case, they approached her with an offer it didnt go to a jury, and she accepted it. so if they dont pay her after they made her the offer, isnt that a bad faith deal? i cant remember if they made an offer to wilcox or if the judge made a ruling,

MaskedMagician1967

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy I think the case goes back to the jury. I am talking to a friend of mine who is a lawyer on this.

Peter Fullmer

Not that it's entirely relevant, but her arrest was for a minor drug possession. In my opinion, that's not even something that should be illegal. If you can smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, drink soda with either too much sugar or detrimental artificial sweeteners, eat fast food, and even drive SUVs that get less than 8 miles /gallon, I don't see how we justify outlawing use or possession of any drugs. I suppose if she was in for child abuse or aggravated assault, the court may not have granted such a settlement. Either way, if someone needs medication for life threatening conditions, it's pretty inhumane to deny it to them.

dennis20 topcommenter

3 Like

Great reporting Dave Biscobing and ABC 15. We really need to vote Penzone. It's time for Joe to go.

Gerry Valenzuela

I'm not saying this woman deserved anything. I just know there are a few people i'm related to that i'd rather have 3.2 mil for. I am unfamiliar with this case. Why was she in jail in the first place?

mochapu1

@DaveBiscobing15 Joe's dungeon. Love it. That's what a real "star" calls it.

Chris Stevens

Well sure it was,thats why sherrif joes dept tried to cover it up,we need to joe and his rat pack out of office!

Peter Fullmer

There's this election thing coming next month. Every time Joe's been back up for an election, he's been unpopular, yet he always wins by a landslide because his opponents haven't always had a qualifying background. Paul Penzone has an extensive background in law enforcement, and he will better understand the budget (our taxes) is for law enforcement in Maricopa County. No more spending time and money on checking the President's birth certificate or trying to catch illegal immigrants. Not when sexual assault crimes are being practically ignored and jails are offering inhumane treatment. I will grant that Gerry is correct to say some of those in jail are arrogant assholes serving time for doing unthinkable and despicable acts, but we must remember our Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment and that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. The court decided on 3.2 million as a fair settlement, so it is clear that there is a problem with Arpaio's ways. Enough ranting on Facebook about it, however. Dislike Joe Arpaio? Tell everyone on election day. Vote for Paul Penzone on election day. Get Joe out of there.

MaskedMagician1967

6 Like

Thanks Joe and MCSO for fucking Maricopa County taxpayers out of $3.25 million for yet another wrongful death settlement and for fucking a family out of a loved one.

I know that the settlement won't bring Debra back, nor does it give comfort to her loved ones.

Come November, do the smart thing: Vote Paul Penzone for MCSO shurf.

This episode cost county taxpayers something like $5 million. And since the insurance kicks in after the $5 million deductible is paid for by county taxpayers, this trial and settlement comes straight from taxpayers.

Gerry Valenzuela

But I still don't know what she did or what they claimed she did to end up in jail. And 3.2 is plenty for some of the jail birds I've known.

Julie Parisi Art

Terrible situation for that poor woman and her family. That ahole Arpaio has cost this county millions in suits like this. He is a murderer multiple times over. These ignorant comments from the males above me just shows how ignorance is both rampant and catchy in this county. People continue to vote in a murdering scumbag who doesn't do his job but rather tortures whenever possible, because, after all, he can. Very pathetic.

yourproductsucks

CBS aired a story stating the same settlement that is being discussed by lemons was not approved by the County Board of Supervisors due to the circus acts of randy parraz. Their antics made it impossible for the Board to continue their meeting and it had to be prematurely concluded. The family has to wait another month before the settlement can be heard and voted on, for no other reason that randy parraz and his political charades for and in behalf of his wife, who is running for a Supervisor's seat.

Shame on parraz.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

@yourproductsucks

Bullshit, you're wrong - again

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

1 Like

@Flyer9753 i am going to have to say, Parraz is playing right into Joe's game right now. yes, it needs to be brought up and dealt with (joes actions), but randy isnt helping the situation when he is disrupting and making them stop in the middle of dealing with joes actions. if randy wanted to do it right, he would have waited till after they decided what to do with the brailard situation. at that point his complaints would have had more weight after they just finished paying out 5 million

Flyer9753 topcommenter

2 Like

@danzigsdaddy

Personally I would like to hear the families take on this.

I am not taking sides here, just talking:

I agree with you that Randy could have in my opinion handled this better but at the same time, so could a lot of other people, Joe and the BOS included who let this languish and fought it for what, 7 years now?

But Randy is fighting a battle here too, we may not agree with his tactics but to be blunt, we are not the ones that get to say that, only the family can and I don't want to put words in their mouth as to how they feel about it.

This is ultimately what happens when a problem like Joe Arpaio and MCSO goes on for as long as it has, it draws so many others into it from so many different directions that everyone starts tripping over everyone elses feet.

And at the core who is responsible for the problem, letting it go on as long as it has and creating the environment of chaos to begin with? Joe Arpaio, MCSO and the BOS.

While what Randy did last night might not have been the best possible thing to do, the responsibility ultimately lay with the people who created the situation in the first place, Joe Arpaio, MCSO and the BOS.

All we can hope at this point is that if the family has a problem with what Randy did they tell him that so he does not repeat it next time

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@yourproductsucks please tell me you are kidding.

yourproductsucks

@danzigsdaddy

http://www.kpho.com/story/19848191/board-of-supervisors-adjourn-meeting-during-protests

The woman being interviewed is a stand up individual, even stephen lemons has said such after her dealing with lester pearce. She has no reason to lie about the charades and antics that parraz continues to pull.

yourproductsucks

@dennis20 @yourproductsucks @danzigsdaddy Gerchick doesn't lie. You, however, do lie. I'll believe Gerchick.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

1 Like

@Flyer9753 it is actually helping him to an extent. people are seeing the same stuff joe did with Saban, and now it really shows that he will stoop to low levels more than once. i pains me to say it, but the old fuck isnt out of the game yet by a long shot, but, he now has less support than he ever did. people are just tired of his bullshit, even people that used to support him

Flyer9753 topcommenter

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy

Which also holds true for Penzone in this case in regards to that web site we were talking about on another article

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

1 Like

@Flyer9753 joe also has said that even bad publicity is publicity. he is a household name that is on the tip of every ones tongue, and thats what he wants.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy

Granted

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

1 Like

@Flyer9753 if the money is still up for debate, it hasnt been paid out so its not out of our pocket yet. the longer he keeps it from being paid, the longer he can deny he cost us millions. its a stupid way to view stuff, but people will buy that defense from him.as ling as the money is still up for consideration he will deny his actions cost us yet another few million.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

2 Like

@danzigsdaddy @david_saint01

I don't like seeing it put off either but won't that fact add more visibility to it in the time between now and the election - therefore more bad press for Joe?

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@david_saint01 of course joe wants them to exercise their right to protest, it puts off the pay out. as long as he can keep that from happening till after the election, it wont be a big glaring problem staring you in the face as you vote

david_saint01 topcommenter

3 Like

@danzigsdaddy @yourproductsucks scarier part is joe making a comment about citizens exercising their right to protest. As has been his MO, joe is acting like the good fascist dictator again.

LegitQuestions

3 Like

@danzigsdaddy Disagree with you. While I'm sure that it was disappointing for the family to have to wait for next month's meeting in order to obtain approval for the settlement, there is no better time to shine light on the issue than when it is being publicly discussed by the BoS. If they don't protest now, and shine the bright light of publicity on it now, it gets swept under the rug and quietly goes away. It becomes a footnote. Only by protesting at the BoS meeting when the MCSO's harm and wrongdoing is being actively discussed does the MCSO's conduct remain front and center in the discussion.

dennis20 topcommenter

1 Like

@yourproductsucks @danzigsdaddy

Hey youxxxxxxsuckx,

We all know this was a cheap and dirty trick the BOS played today. They even admit that Parraz's crew left. I'm not buying the article or your BS. Watch the clip again-they claim they were disruptive durring public comment. The BOS already votes on issues before public comment.

But if it's a precedent as to how easy it is to stop them from doing anything I can sure think of plenty that could be stopped.

For example, if in 2009, we would've known it was this easy to stop the BOS from voting to give Arpaio 287G authority in his jails we certainly would've brought it on by the tens of thousands.

This whole battle is about democracy vs. power brokers afraid of Arpaio or the dirt he holds over their head.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@yourproductsucks if parraz wants to go bring chickens to joe's office, thats his right. pulling that shit while they are trying to settle on Braillards mothers death....is not his right

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@yourproductsucks people trying to make their stand or platform on something and costing others, like it is in this case pisses me off. there is a time and a place for politics, at the expense of others is not that time or place. they just screwed the poor girl out of her closure

David Thompson

Joe, Joe, you be the Sheriff Man. If you can't kill them, no one can!

Chuck Klee

Death usually has a tendency to be " Horrific". It's death for Christ's sake...not candyland.

Gerry Valenzuela

Why was she in jail in the first place? And 3.2 is plenty for most jail birds I have known.

Warren J Sarvis III

nothing's enough for a loved ones live.3.2 certainly is'nt

Jolly Ollie

Arpaio / Mexicans = Hitler / Jews.

Pamela Stone Vozza

...and, once again, the taxpayers are left holding the bag for mercenary Joe >:-(

Ricky Hollywood

Joe's relatives must not have been able to get the concessions contract for insulin

Bob Tyler

Sue happy world.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

4 Like

with all the evidence they shredded in this case, is there even any proof left of them even having her in there? YPS, i know not all of MCSO personell are bad, but this is why people are so negative towards it. i am highly doubtful that Joe himself destroyed ALL the evidence. there are still many people in there that just as guilty as Joe if not more so. this is the kind of stuff that effects all of you, the good and the bad employee's. you dont have to answer this, but, arent many of you disgusted by this stuff too? as i said, i have known some pretty decent MCSO officers, but this kind of cover up makes us doubt all of them. (i am not trying to bag on all you MCSO people, but there are some in there that just have absolutely no morals or ethics) nobody likes a whistle blower, but somebody in there has to start. this kind of activity paints a nasty target on all of you.

MaskedMagician1967

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy Zigs, Deputy Chief Frank Munnell did just that. He blew the whistle on the corruption emanating from MCSO.

What he wrote in a 63-page memo to the Flaccid Fraud resulted in the firings of Dave Henderbulk, Joel Fox and Larry Black. I was hoping for federal criminal indictments but the feds are spineless.

I remember reading some time ago about another MCSO deputy who told the Old Fool about Henderbulk and his abuses of power. I don't remember the name of the deputy.

yourproductsucks

4 Like

@danzigsdaddy I don't work in the jails. I never have. I can't speak to the policies, lack of training and/or malfeasance that may be occurring in the jails. People die. Sometimes they die while in jail. I don't know that all in custody deaths can be directly (or indirectly) attributed to Sheriff's Office policies or practices. I am certain there are some that can. I am reasonable enough to realize that settlements are not an admission of guilt or responsibility. Manning recognizes this as well. It's curious he never doesn't accept the settlement. If he were in it for the greater good, you'd think he'd navigate these cases to a jury endorsed judgement. He never does. It's all about the money. I also recognize that every in custody death results in a lawsuit.

I don't like the idea that evidence is being destroyed. I am not shocked by it either. If I knew that such things had occurred I wouldn't hesitate to report it to a source that could stop such activity and punish those who participate in it. I am certain a super majority of employees within the County would do the same.

I abhor those that mar the honor of the badge. They are no better then the common criminal.

Are there such individuals within the MCSO? Of course.

Tommy says, " And yes, you are correct that those who know about corruption and c(r)iminality and do nothing, are complicit." I couldn't agree more with that statement. But working in an agency where a criminal act or acts have occurred does not mean that each individual employee is capable of having thwarted such activity.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

2 Like

@yourproductsucks thank you for answering that, although you were under no obligation to do so, i appreciate the answer and the stand you are taking (I abhor those that mar the honor............) it does prove that the entire organization is not without ethics

Eleanor_Holguin

@yourproductsucks Thanks.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@yourproductsucks gotcha

yourproductsucks

@danzigsdaddy I was not speaking about you. There is a person who posts here infrequently that is mean and nasty at her.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

@yourproductsucks if i seemed to be attacking her, it was not intended. i just saw i was thrown into a group and and questioned as to if i was calling you an idiot. that bothered me as i am trying to be civil (to most people anyways) so i took it as a slight against me. if she or you took it as an attack, i apologize.

yourproductsucks

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy fair enough

yourproductsucks

@danzigsdaddy it does prove that the entire organization is not without ethics

I appreciate your accolades, yet my comments prove nothing of the sort. You are a decent guy, and I recognize you are the type of individual that avoids conflict. I find that we are similar in that respect (except the only person I avoid conflict with is my wife, but it's to the same degree you approach everyone.) It's ok to disagree with me, even vehemently, I take nothing personal on this site, except when people attack Eleanor...

Eleanor_Holguin

1 Like

@danzigsdaddy I think what you don't understand is usually the entire command staff is corrupt. They are the "managers" of all the supervisors. When there is corruption at the top the is corruption at all levels. That certainly does not mean that EVERYBODY is corrupt, it means the people in charge are usually the most corrupt.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

2 Like

@Eleanor_Holguin @danzigsdaddy

And no one under those managers sees it and blows the whistle?

As obvious as it is, I find it hard to believe that they have not seen it and blown the whistle on it, as their sworn oath demands they do.

That sounds to me like the definition of how corruption continues to live and be, corruption.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

3 Like

@danzigsdaddy

Well said but I have to add one thing.

There are a lot of good MCSO officers, but to be blunt, if you are not out there blowing the whistle on this type of activity, you just stopped being a good officer and became part of the problem.

No one likes whistle blowers but we like ostrich's who bury their head in the sand so they don't have to see it even less, especially those that have taken an oath to the people to protect and serve.

Tommy_Collins

3 Like

@Flyer9753 @danzigsdaddy

Flyer, due some recent comments made by YPS I'm not at all convinced that (s)he is a member of MCSO. I think it's just another smoke screen from the MCSO media machine. And yes, you are correct that those who know about corruption and ciminality and do nothing, are complicit.

yourproductsucks

@MaskedMagician1967 Just admit you lied and lets move forward. There isn't any reason to continue lying and it will make you feel better to be honest.

MaskedMagician1967

@yourproductsucks Right. OK. Whatever you say, YPS.

yourproductsucks

@david_saint01 Thanks for bringing what you normally bring to the table; nothing. Your posts are as meaningless as JAf's.

yourproductsucks

@MaskedMagician1967 You do realize that Public information requests have no merit while an investigation is active? You know that what means? Your story is absolute bullshit. No one knows who you are or cares that you may or may not have written a letter to the Attorney General's Office.

Another lie to cover a lie.

david_saint01 topcommenter

1 Like

@yourproductsucks @Flyer9753 the pathetic life is all yours YPS..

MaskedMagician1967

@yourproductsucks Um, hello. The U.S. Attorney's Office is a government entity and as such is subject to Arizona's Public Records Law. Joe very easily could have filed a public-records request for it and had me followed simply because of what the letter contained. We know what the MCSO is capable of when it comes to intimidating people perceived by Joe to be his "enemies" (Don Stapley, Judge Donahoe, Judge Mundell, etc. ring a bell to ya?)

The incident involving the Sheriff's Deputy pointing the gun at me occurred around midnight on or around July 4 of 2011. The Deputy claimed that there had been an armed robbery at the Circle K near Broadway and Crismon in Mesa, of which I had no part in.

The DUI story regarding Dever occurred on 12/10/2002, when I was 16. At the time I wore braces and I was scheduled to have them removed the day the accident happened. My idiot father was the drunk driver. I was the passenger. The car was an '02 Mitsubishi Eclipse. My dad was driving the car at 65 mph in a 30 mph zone when he steered the car into the opposing lane and sideswiped a blue Ford Expedition SUV, shearing off the driver's door mirror. Then the car accelerated into the back of a left-turning oil truck at 65 mph with a 5,000RPM, which cracked the windshield. Then my idiot father passed out behind the wheel of the car after making a sharp turn, and spun the steering wheel to the right, driving head-on into a tree at 65mph. He wasn't wearing his seat belt and went flying into the steering wheel and was knocked unconscious. I did wear my seat belt and slammed my right knee into the glove box. The car was destroyed. Dear old Dad had to stay in the hospital for 4 days and I was out of school for 2 days. He suffered a concussion, a black eye and a small cut on his face. To this very day my father is still alive and so am I. Since you weren't there and don't know what happened, perhaps it's best if you don't respond with anything sarcastic, as you are notorious for doing.

Yes I am familiar with Seinfeld though I do not watch the show nor do I see what Seinfeld has to do with this story.

Anything else that you wanna waste my time on YPS?

yourproductsucks

@MaskedMagician1967 Lets see...

You fabricated a story that you were harrassed by deputies from MCSO both at home AND at work. You stated this on multiple occasions but offered different reasons as to why. One reason was this "printed letter sent to the DoJ" that had this damning evidence against arpaio and was certainly going to tip the investigation against him. He was so infuriated by this that he had you followed, harrassed, and a gun was pointed at you. Remember that one? Yet you couldn't explain how arpaio knew you sent the letter, knew the contents of the letter (you can't even produce the contents now and refuse to share the information on this site) or knew who you were.

You did this because you insisted you were a victim of arpaio's antics.

The DUI story regarding Dever you decided it was important to "fit in" and you created this yarn that you were involved in an accident where you were the passenger of a vehicle that was driven by a drunk driver and it ended with the vehicle striking a tree at 65mph. I don't know how much of the story is real and how much is you embellishing, but it is impossible for you both to have walked away from an accident that ends with a car going 65 mph and then coming to an immediate stop.

There is more, much much more. you are a "one upper". You familiar with Seinfeld?

yourproductsucks

@Flyer9753 Hey dimwit, I was speaking directly to your comment- "I speak specifically in regards to several interactions I have had with Sheriff Joe personally"

You said interactionS. That indicates there were multiple (more than one) interactions with Arpaio. You only had one interaction that you published here...your security story of repelling arpaio at the concert gate.

I absolutely called bullshit on your "attorney" claim as there is no attorney in the world who would have made the statements you asserted. I am certain I have noted other inconsistent statements you have made, much like the one you just made.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

@yourproductsucks

Really? That was the single interaction?

You called me a liar the other day in that I had spoken with my attorney about something - are you now claiming you are bugging my phone calls too so you can make that claim?

There have been others as well, but I am sure you will forget those as well, until I remind you of them of course and C/P the mails/posts.

The only one lying here is you YPS, as you just proved yourself.

MaskedMagician1967

1 Like

@yourproductsucks I don't need validation YPS.

I offer my thoughts on the articles and people are free to respond with either agreement, disagreement or to offer their point of view.

You don't like the fact that I was sucked in to a political war involving Candy Andy and your boss the MCSO shurf and that the information gathered was submitted to the feds. I have a printed copy of that letter. That's why I have never posted a link to it.

You've claimed that I lie and embellish so much. Other than what I post on this site YPS, please do share what else you think I lie and embellish?

yourproductsucks

@Flyer9753 Several interactions eh? You reveled in a single interaction where you kept arpaio from entering a gate at a concert. I threw the bullshit flag. I stand by my assessment of your "story".

You and Jason embellish for the purpose of validation amongst strangers. A pathetic life, I must say.

yourproductsucks

2 Like

@Eleanor_Holguin It's funny that everyone here has made a pact to not comment on JAF's threads yet every one of them are drawn to him like a moth to light. I can't remember the last time I read one of his insidious statements.

yourproductsucks

1 Like

@Eleanor_Holguin Not would, DID.

Early ballot has already been mailed.

yourproductsucks

@Tommy_Collins @Flyer9753 @danzigsdaddy due some recent comments made by YPS I'm not at all convinced that (s)he is a member of MCSO. I think it's just another smoke screen from the MCSO media machine

Does that mean you recant your promise that you'd double my contribution to Child Help? I'm holding you to your word, tommy. I think you are a man of your word. Don't disappoint.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

2 Like

@Eleanor_Holguin @Tommy_Collins @danzigsdaddy

I Agree that JAF is spam and should be treated as such, no problem there.

As to YPS. YPS has made personal attacks against me several times without knowing the facts. They have called me a liar several times on situations I have personally been involved in and related here, even though they themselves were not there and could not possibly speak to the situation unless they were one of the participants in disguise

I speak specifically in regards to several interactions I have had with Sheriff Joe personally that unless YPS is Joe Arpaio or one of his deputies, YPS can in no way speak to what actually happened.

If YPS is one of the people that was there then I would expect them to be able to prove what they are saying in calling me a liar just as they would expect me to be able to do if the situation were reversed. To date they cannot.

To that end YPS is nothing more than a troll just like JAF is IMHO until she/he/it proves otherwise. As to how they are voting, I could care less since in the instances I relate to above they have proven to me they care nothing about facts as they were trying to defend Arpaio when what Arpaio did has no defense.

If YPS can prove that what I have said is false, I welcome it. I can make that statement with zero worry since I was actually there and know what happened whereas YPS was not.

danzigsdaddy topcommenter

3 Like

@Eleanor_Holguin uh??? did i say anything against him? i've had civil conversations with him, i dont jump on him about stuff, and i actually have some respect for him because he will research stuff before arguing (whether he is right or wrong). i also have a high regard for him as both an opponent and because of how he treated someone who laid their soul bare in another post. he talked to her with respect and compassion, and it got my respect for him (whether i agree with him or not) he has been civil with me and i have been civil with him. if you read my post again, i do not insult him, i actually say he is not one of the bad MCSO people. i dont argue with him and i avoid arguments that others have with him.

Eleanor_Holguin

1 Like

@Flyer9753 @Tommy_Collins @danzigsdaddy Yps has publicly said he would vote for Penzone. Isn't that what the three of you want....does that make him an idiot?

Does is matter who he is in real life MCSO or not. He brings a lot to the conversation and if you can't appreciate that then you don't understand his level of intelligence.

You can in no way compare him to JAF when it comes to intelligence or what he wants when it comes to who will be the next sheriff.

I don't know if he likes to argue as much as he likes to make people think and see all sides. Most people can't do that they can only see one position and no other.

People call me out all the time for sticking up for Yps. I don't look at it as such. I see it as understanding his point of view. More people should learn they too have those blinders on when it comes to some people.

As for JAF, I don't bother to read his post anymore. I think he is a bot......he should be reported as spam.

Flyer9753 topcommenter

3 Like

@Tommy_Collins @danzigsdaddy

Personally I don't care who she/he/it is IRL, they have proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt to have a very weird world view a propensity to go through life with both blinders and rose colored glasses on, especially when it comes to sheriff Joe.

I have no problem with someone supporting whoever they support up until that person will not even accept proven facts, then they have proven to me that they are idiots who are not worth the time it takes to call them idiots.

That is exactly what YPS, GHD and JAF have proven themselves to be, idiots who argue not for the sake of the argument, but for the sake of arguing.