Joe Arpaio's Racial Profiling Trial Ends, and Yes, Joe's Still Guilty as Sin

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Stanley Young of Covington and Burling, outside federal court Thursday

See also: Joe Arpaio's Racial Profiling Trial Begins, and, Yes, He's Guilty as Sin
See also: Joe Arpaio's Taliban, Nativist Steve Camarota, and More Problems for the MCSO
See also: Joe Arpaio's (ahem) Legal Scholar Brett "Shut Up" Palmer and Flunky Brian Sands Under Oath

As U.S. District Judge G. Murray Snow explained what he wanted opposing counsel to address in their closing, written arguments in the ACLU's big racial-profiling case Melendres v. Arpaio, he mentioned that he didn't mean to "foreshadow" his ruling with the questions he was asking.

And yet, Snow seemed to do just that after the last witness left the stand a little before 3 p.m. Thursday, the final day of the trial.

An exacting jurist with an obsession for detail, Snow noted that in videotaped testimony Sheriff Joe Arpaio's lawyers had played for the judge earlier, Alonzo Pena, former Special Agent in Charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Phoenix office, said race could be used, along with other factors, in developing probable cause regarding an individual's immigration status.

Snow, who is both judge and jury in this bench trial, observed that in the Ninth Circuit, Pena is "dead wrong," according to a precedent set in U.S. v. Montero-Camargo, a 2000 Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that eliminated race as a factor in most immigration stops.

If the MCSO used race as "one factor among many," does it matter if they believed they were following the law, as instructed by ICE? That is to say, if MCSO deputes intended to use race as a factor, does it matter if they did not intend to violate the law?

That was the inquiry put to lawyers for both sides, and yet, in his December ruling granting class action to all Hispanics stopped by the MCSO since January of 2007, Snow addressed the same issue.

Back then, Snow wrote:

"Defendants assert that in training 287(g) officers, ICE informs them that race or apparent ancestry may be used as one factor in evaluating whether officers have reasonable suspicion to stop an individual, although it cannot be considered the sole factor.

"Whether or not such information is provided by ICE to local law enforcement officers during their 287(g) training, the law in the Ninth Circuit is clear: `Hispanic appearance is of little or no use in determining which particular individuals among the vast Hispanic populace should be stopped by law enforcement officials on the lookout for illegal aliens.'"

In the ruling to come, Snow must address both Fourth Amendment claims of unreasonable search and seizure, as well as 14th Amendment claims of racial profiling. Snow pointed out that to issue an injunction for the 14th Amendment claims, he needed to identify "a certain element of intent" on the part of MCSO.

Plaintiffs' counsel Stanley Young, speaking to reporters after the judge recessed, seemed eager to address that issue of intent.

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Cecillia Wang, Director of the ACLU Immigrants' Rights Project

"I think the issue of intent is a pretty simple one," Young said. "If a government agency has as a matter of policy the principle that it can make decisions on the basis of race, our view is that's wrong. Even if the government agency thinks it's correct in taking race into account."

Translation: the MCSO is up a creek sans paddle, flippers, or canoe.


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53 comments
ja12hn
ja12hn

The shame of it is the costs go on and on and we keep paying for this intolerant bum (and side kicks) and his antics. Can anyone help me locate any contact info for Andrew Thomas-honest, I need to talk to him about a Sheriff issue while he was in office.

farscape_babe
farscape_babe

There is not a single person that doesn't profile in one way or another. You see someone walking down the street with his arse hanging out. YOU PROFILE. You see someone with tats you profile. There isn't a day go by you as a citizen doesn't profile someone to some extent.. 

Beefburger
Beefburger

Ok, one question. Very simple so that most of you here on New Times MAY understand it.  Uhmmm, if Joe Arpaio is the Barron of Ultimate Evil that you say he is, then why is he the ONLY candidate on the ballot for Sheriff?

Eleanor
Eleanor

I hate this new comment system. It sucks ass.

shadeaux14
shadeaux14

You can bet that, if the ruling goes against Joe, he will try every appeal in the book which will cost taxpayers untold millions more to pay his legal bills.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Joe has Narcissistic Personality Disorder and , as such, is completely incapable of taking responsibility for his crimes. In his twisted mind, that sheriff's badge gives him the authority to do damn near anything to anybody.

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

If the DoJ gives authority to MCSO to assist in the enforcement of immigration laws(287g) and gives instruction and training to complete such enforcement, it is the responsibility of the agency giving the training to ensure its instruction is legal and lawful. ICE, headed by Janet Napolitano, gave such authority and training. It is Napolitano and the DoJ that gave faulty information to the MCSO. MCSo cannot be sanctioned without first sanctioning the originating agency who provided the training.

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967

Let's hope Judge Snow puts an independent monitor up Joe's fat, flaccid ass.

 

Then the DOJ can get to the business of indicting the Old Fool.

Coz...
Coz...

How maqny times have we all heard that Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law...

 

We'll see if this holds true for justice for all including law enforcement.

I'm not holding my breath.

l622
l622

Great article!!  Thanks Mr. Lemons again for your devotion to the truth, and just standing up for what is right.

maestramadremia
maestramadremia

If the MCSO used race as "one factor among many," does it matter if they believed they were following the law, as instructed by ICE? That is to say, if MCSO deputes intended to use race as a factor, does it matter if they did not intend to violate the law?

 

 

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law even if one is the arresting officer in AZ!

TEXASBORDER
TEXASBORDER

Guilty? Really? Did the court make that decision or are you just making this up for sensationalism?

yourproductsucks
yourproductsucks

 @Beefburger

 The correct answer to your question is that Arpaio is the only person on the Republican Primary ballot.  He is uncontested within the Republican Party.  This will change during the General Election as there will be a Dem, an Independant and Arpaio.

 

wannabe war vet shows his continued ignorance in his misinformed answer.

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

There are 4 candidates for Sheriff on the ballot, Sheriff Joke arPayaso is not the only one, although the more candidates on the ballot the more the anti-Joker vote is going to get dilluted, giving him a better chance to be re-elected, unfortunatelly.

KINGO
KINGO

 @EleanorBut America is more than the popular will. It is devoted to the concept that all humans have certain unalienable rights, no matter where they are born, no matter where their parents or grandparents or great grandparents come from, no matter what language they speak or how dark or light their skin.

 

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @shadeaux14 The medical term for his condition is HUA (Head up ass) syndrome, and it may be terminal for Joe.  He believes his press releases, and uses them to stimulate bowel regularity.

 

I hope he loses the case, and the election.  He has caused enough headaches for law enforcement already.

TruConserv
TruConserv

 @Yourproductsucks Wow, such scintillating legal logic. Too bad all the high-priced lawyers, what with their Ivy League degrees, never thought of it.

 

Unless, yes ... wait for it ... YOU'RE AN IGNORANT DOUCHEBAG!

 

Your logic is reversed. The reason the lawsuit is being brought by the DoJ is because Arpaio is operating in opposite its guidance and the laws of the United States.

 

The defense of "but they said I could" doesn't apply ...

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @Yourproductsucks Janet is not on trial here.  Take your issue up with DOJ.  She, and ICE, get a pass here.  If they gave out bad advice, it does not give Joke a free ride on the streets.  He is still an asshole!

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @Yourproductsucks ".  MCSo (sic) cannot be sanctioned without first sanctioning the originating agency who provided the training."

 

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It is the responsibility of every Law Enforcement Officer to KNOW the Laws he is trying to enforce, regardless of what anybody else tells him, they can read the books for themselves, or SHOULD be able to read before they put on a gun and a badge, you argument is as stupid, moronic, and dimwitted as you are.

 

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@Coz... In this instance, ignorance is not the issue. Faulty training and oversight was.

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @maestramadremia I would venture to say that "One factor among many" would be fine.  But, Joe had his guys use a different criteria, and race became the main factor.

 

If you stop someone for a bad tail light, and he is Hispanic, then there is no profiling involved.  If you stop a Hispanic, do a vehicle inspection and find a broken tail light, then Joe will give you a commendation for good police work.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

I hate illegals, too!  But, I hate it more that Joe has created bad law to keep other good cops from enforcing the laws without being painted with the same brush as his. If you are a trained officer, and really want to find out who you are talking to, there are ways to do so without profiling, or infringing on their rights until you know where you stand.  Joe feels that if you are more deeply tanned than he is, then you must be an illegal and up to no good.

 

Thankfully, I no longer live in Maricopa County.  Joe embarrassed me out of law enforcement there.  Many more cops feel the same, but are afraid to say so.

narizona
narizona

TEXASBORDER you have no clue of what's happening here in sand land ,your comments seem rather shallow.......you have to be here to believe what's going on with this new gangster scene in Phoenix I think one of the requirements is just that corrupt decietful and liar .if you have these qualities ...your in ! SUCKS ...But the times they are a changing!

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @TEXASBORDER  Mr. Texasborder, I assume based on your name that you are from/in Texas, if that is the case there is a high probability that what you know about this SO-CALLED Sheriff is what you hear on Fox News, well, for the rest of us here in Arizona and specially us in Maricopa County, we do not need courts, judges, or juries to tell us that this man IS GUILTY as sin, we all know about his illegal dealings, corruption, vendettas, discrimination, misappropriations of $100 million of Tax Payers money, etc.  his long time ally, former AZ. AG Andrew Thomas was just disbarred for the same offenses that blew up in this man's face too, and on the disbarment proceedings, the man that fancies himself as "America's Toughest Sheriff" suddenly got a severe case of "I DONT RECALL" , he became America's Most Forgetful and Incompetent Sheriff, and the record holder for the most "I Don't Recalls" in any Court of Law with an impressive record of 36 "I Don't Recalls" in a 30 minute period.  The New Times is one of the few news outlets that tells it like it is and is not afraid to "upset" this powerful so-called "lawman", and they have paid a dear price for it, in the manner of false charges by Sheriff Joke arPayaso and his lackey former Az. Attorney General.

 

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2008/04/new_times_owners_to_sue_joe_an.php

 

 

 

yourproductsucks
yourproductsucks

 @TruConserv

 It's cute how you always revert to name calling.  How very professional and mature of you!

 

Even this slanted artlicle, which has withheld any information that sheds any negative light on their hopeful outcome mentioned the following-

 

 "Snow noted that in videotaped testimony Sheriff Joe Arpaio's lawyers had played for the judge earlier, Alonzo Pena, former Special Agent in Charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Phoenix office, said  race could be used, along with other factors, in developing probable cause regarding an individual's immigration status."

 

The ICE SAC corroborates the training and information given to MCSO.  I sat through ICE's training and have written documentation of the parameters that were set by ICE.  These parameters were never deviated from and were under constant monitoring by ICE officials. 

yourproductsucks
yourproductsucks

 @bob_lablaw96

 You brag of having over 30 years experience in law enforcement.  Surely you are familiar with the Good Faith Exemption which protects law enforcement in cases just like this one. 

 

If Deputies were acting on information and training provided by ICE, and ICE, in their oversight of MCSO's actions, saw no deviation from the training they received, MCSO deputies are protected by this exclusionary rule. 

 

Any bets that Snow cites Good Faith as the reason MCSO can not be held to task for actions that defy case law on this issue?

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of Arpaio.  In fact, I wholly agree with you.  Yet this DoJ/ ACLU witch hunt reference racial profiling is vapid and without merit.

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@US_War_Veteran We shall see. You may be the one looking stupid. I doubt you'll be man enough to admit it after the ruling comes back.

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @Yourproductsucks No...ignorance was the issue.  Not ignorant deputies, but ignorant leaders.  Try your logic in any arena when you are wrong. It will not go over.

 

Joke has a publicity addiction, and used his deputies to feed his habit.  I have over three decades in law enforcement, and cannot tell you the name of anyone that has embarrassed the profession as much as Joke. He deserves to lose this case, his election, and his nest egg.  He is such an insult to real law enforcement.

 

Nickel-bag Joe:  I hope you have a nice stay in Club Fed one day soon. You have caused the County more than you can repay by tossing salad for the few years you have left

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @Yourproductsucks  Well yes, we all now Sheriff Joke arPayaso has been asleep at the wheel, so you can add faulty LEADERSHIP to that too.

 

slinkie
slinkie

 @richardphx08 "doncha ya know" it isa prerequisite for Republicans and Conservatives to be Corrupt or they don't stand a chance at gaining the office their running for?"you betcha"

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967

 @US_War_Veteran Actually US, Candy Andy Thomas was Maricopa County Attorney, not Arizona Attorney General. He nearly did become state AG though (shudder).

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@US_War_Veteran @TEXASBORDER don't fret over wannabe war vets comments. He poses as something he obviously is not.

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @yourproductsucks   "It's cute how you always revert to name calling.  How very professional and mature of you!"

 

Isn't it the same thing you did when you posted this bullshit after you couldn't find a way to rebut my posted comment:

 

"TEXASBORDER don't fret over wannabe war vets comments.  He poses as something he obviously is not."

 

Can you say HYPOCRITE!

 

 

 

 

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @yourproductsucks Part of Joe's problem seems to be in developing probable cause for the detention itself.  Once the vato is in custody, then that ICE declaration that race could be used to determine immigration status.

 

What about the use of race as the pretext for the contact initially?  That is where I think that Joe will fall short.  His deputies in the field abused their discretion too often in stopping people for driving while brown.

 

Other than that, you are doing quite well fending off these attacks from the peanut gallery!  Keep it up!

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @yourproductsucks   And surely you are familiar with the United States Constitution, and that pesky little paper call the Bill of Rights.

 

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @woefatcat It is not his argument.  He is merely pointing out case law.  Military rules differ, as the military operates in foreign countries. 

 

The Constitution is a federal paper. MCSO is a County agency.  Counties, Cities, States can have their own laws, so long as they do not outlaw things specifically allowed in the Constitution.  There is no real Constitutional protection for illegally being here, as that was never considered way back when.

 

Yourproductsucks is just pointing out the possibility that there are conflicting laws or court decisions.  It will depend on what the judge feels is the trump card to determine who wins or loses this.

 

I think that Joe is on pretty thin ice (no pun intended) here. Rather than financial damages, at least the ACLU is just asking that he comply with current laws from now on.  That is a big change for those whores.

bob_lablaw96
bob_lablaw96

 @yourproductsucks IF they were acting as instructed, with no deviation, a Good Faith Exception might be made for criminal acts.  I don't know if it would extend to this lawsuit.  Depending on whether all deputies received Federal training, or just some of them who then went back and passed the information along, there is an issue of liability.

 

I am no fan of Napolitano, Arpaio, nor illegals, and wish that this issue had never gone to a courtroom.  One way or the other, there will be some celebrating once the decision is rendered.  I don't want either group to feel that they are victors in this fight.

 

Joke should keep all that he catches, but he needs to catch them fairly.  For Napolitano to refuse to endorse SB1070, and to order ICE to refuse cooperation with Joke, shows how badly the Joke messed up his 287 agreement.

yourproductsucks
yourproductsucks

 @woefatcat

 That is not my argument. 

 

If MCSO was aware the information they were given was illegal it would behoove them to ignore such instruction.  Apples to oranges.

woefatcat
woefatcat

 @yourproductsucks So the police departments of our nation do not follow the same guidelines as our armed forces? Because what I thought was learned there is that I do not have to obey my superior when they instruct me to do something illegal? But since I am a cop I can discard this logic? If I was told to enforce laws in a way that went contradictory to what my Constitution tells me, I am cool? I can break laws and just say "That guy told me to do it?" Your argument makes little sense.

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967

 @yourproductsucks Actually Rachel, it's you who is slow.

 

If what you said is true, then why did Janet Napolitano, as head of Homeland Security, cancel the MCSO's 287 (g) agreement?

 

Eric Holder, as head of the Department of Justice, has absolutely no legal authority to suspend or terminate a program operated within another department.

 

You need to stop taking Candy Andy's meds for delusions and start taking your meds Rachel.

yourproductsucks
yourproductsucks

 @MaskedMagician1967

 Police Officers recieve initial training from POST approved Academies.  MCSO heads one such Academy.

 

As a law enforcement officer continues in their career, they recieve additional training from a plethora of sources.  ICE headed the 287g program and provided the training to it's partnering law enforcement officers.  MCSO acted on training recieved by ICE reference the detection, investigation and detention of Illegal Aliens.  ICE officials worked in concert with MCSO throughout the 287g program and continue a cooperative effort in the Human Smuggling Unit's current actions. 

 

I know you are slow.  You may not know that ICE is a division within the Department of Justice.  It's the Department of Justice that gave the training and oversight to MCSO.

MaskedMagician1967
MaskedMagician1967

 @Yourproductsucks You sure about that?

 

If memory serves, police officers are trained at a STATE police academy. They are trained on how to handle virtually every issue they face. So, it's not faulty training, it's the officers' own discretion.

yourproductsucks
yourproductsucks

 @US_War_Veteran

 None of your rant has any substance to it.  There is no need to rebut.

 

I know exactly the type of person you are.  I see your type every time I get off the freeway, holding that sign begging for money while claiming they are a war veteran.  It's why your threat against the Sheriff in the above comment is meaningless.  You are a nobody with no ability to act on your threat.

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @Yourproductsucks    " I am humored by how easily you cower to anger"

 

LOL, quite the contrary, I am elated, the fact that in my response to TEXASBORDER you couldn't rebut anything I said because you know it's true and well documented, you chose instead to attack my character, I find that quite amusing, and also I find quite hilarious that I know who you are and you are dieing to know who I am, some day you might but it will be too late for you and your friends in MCSO to do anything about it, and since you are a cock sucking nobody I don't feel the need to prove anything to you when you call me a "wannabe", rest assured that this "wannabe" is not only going to bury your hero, I will also piss on his grave, although I do suspect the pissing line is going to be long, not to worry, I will bring plenty a liquids to quench my thirst in the hot Arizona sun.

 

 

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@US_War_Veteran I am humored by how easily you cower to anger. It's like taking candy from a baby. Class dismissed

Yourproductsucks
Yourproductsucks

@US_War_Veteran you are a legend in your own mind, wannabe.

US_War_Veteran
US_War_Veteran

 @Yourproductsucks  Really? Want to start with me again? the last few times you and I had a few rounds you didn't fret so well, frankly I am surprised the flaccid fool let you take your mouth away from his cock to write that, lets hope he lets you stop sucking on his little flaccid dick long enough for you to read my response. 

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