John Huppenthal's Whopper on Ethnic Studies: Cambium Report Doesn't Back Hup's Declaration that Tucson's MASD Program Violates State Law

1308248368_johnhuppenthal.jpg
Uriel Garcia
Huppenthal, contradicting the findings of his own report

I've just finished reading the Cambium report on Tucson Unified School District's much-maligned Mexican American Studies Department. It's a shocker.

Know why? Because the report itself concludes that "no observable evidence was present to suggest that any classroom within Tucson Unified School District is in direct violation of the law [Arizona Revised Statutes] 15-112(A)."

This completely contradicts Arizona Schools Superintendent John Huppenthal's determination that TUSD's MASD program is in violation of the law and has 60 days to change its ways or face a potential cutoff of 10 percent of its state funds.

The statute, passed by the Legislature in 2010, and written by former Superintendent and current Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne, prohibits classes that promote the overthrow of the United States Government, promote resentment toward a certain race or class, are designed for pupils of a particular ethnicity, or advocate ethnic solidarity.

Huppenthal alleged that the MASD classes violate all but the first provision. However, the audit conducted by Texas-based Cambium Learning, Inc. (which was commissioned by Huppenthal himself) found that none of the four prongs of the law were violated by any of the various literature, history, government or art courses that MASD offers.

In addition, the audit, which is overwhelmingly positive, depicts courses that are popular with students and the community, and, more importantly, effective.

"High school juniors taking a MASD course are more likely to pass the reading and writing portion of the AIMS subject tests if they had previously failed those subtests in their sophomore year. Consequently, high school seniors enrolled in a MASD course are more likely to graduate than their peers."

Anywhere from five to 11 percent more likely, the data indicates. 

And for this, the study lauds the program.

"[Student] achievement is due to the sense of pride that develops through their accomplishments with highly effective teachers," the report states at one point.

The study does offer some criticism and recommendations, and it does identify certain texts that should go through a review process, but it doesn't recommend scrapping the program, as Horne wanted done. This, as he left the Superintendent's office for the AG's throne. 

Rather, it recommends keeping the classes as core courses, as long as its recommendations are instituted. These were: effective curriculum management, open communication between MASD and TUSD, and between both of those parties and the Department of Education.

I will post the full report as soon as I can get it scanned and turned into a PDF file.

(UPDATE: The full report is now available via the links given at the end of this blog item.)

How did the media, on the whole, miss this big story? 

First, Huppenthal sat on the report for about a month, and released it only during a very misleading press conference yesterday.

Journalists there had no time to read or even browse the 120 page report. It was not provided to them in PDF form, and the presser itself did not discuss the report's actual findings.

Instead, reporters were fed an insipid dog and pony show with prepared statements by Huppenthal and Associate Superintendent Kathy Hrabluk. These officials indicated, at great length, that the MASD courses were poorly developed and not produced using accepted norms.

Of course, they never said anything about the report contradicting Huppenthal's draconian decision. And since reporters knew nothing of the actual content of the report, they mostly swallowed what they heard.

Also, Huppenthal and Hrabluk scurried out of the room like frightened Chihuahuas after fielding a few questions. Before doing so, Huppenthal had the gall to say that he believed the courses caused "unhealthy segregation."

I asked him what "healthy segregation" would look like, and how he planned to desegregate TUSD, seeing that some of its schools are up to 90 percent Latino.

Naturally, he dodged the question.

The study found some texts MASD reportedly uses to be questionable, and I would disagree with that characterization. However, the reading lists for these courses, as you will see when I post the document, are very broad, and include everything from Sandra Cisneros' coming-of-age novel The House on Mango Street to William Shakespeare's The Tempest.

Huppenthal spokesman Andrew LeFevre told me that the report was not the only basis for Huppenthal's decision yesterday, and the department will soon release a list of offending passages and texts to back up Huppenthal's determination.

But the majority of the reading lists are made up of texts that virtually no one would find offensive. To damn the entire program by cherry-picking and taking passages out of context smacks of true Tom Horne-style McCarthyism.

LeFevre wasn't sure of how much the study actually cost. Previous reports cited a figure of $170,000. But LeFevre believes that is not accurate. Whatever the bill, Huppenthal should ask for a refund, because it undermines everything critics like him have been saying about the program.

The audit finds the students to be motivated, articulate, and "closing the achievement gap." The teachers are committed, prepared, and "provided students with assignments which required the use of higher-order and critical thinking skills."

So what's wrong about this? Again, this report gives the lie to all of the smears and misinformation promulgated by conservative extremists in this state, such as MASD-hater Doug MacEachern of the Arizona Republic

No wonder MASD's students are willing to risk jail protesting the possible elimination of these classes. Were I in their sneakers, I'd do the same damn thing.

Because of the size of the document, it's split into five parts. Here are the links: Cambium One, Cambium Two, Cambium Three, Cambium Four, and Cambium Five.



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105 comments
Henry004
Henry004

Why doesn't Huppie tell about his trip to China in 2011.  Who paid for it?  Huh?

Maxonepercent
Maxonepercent

 I am so tired of all the America-bashing that the supporters of these MASD program keep engaging in.  If America was such a terrible place for hispanics than why is it that so many millions of people from Latin America are risking so much to get here?  Show me one Latin American county that has a functional welfare system or public schooling for all its citizens (and illegal immigrants).  You all rail against the ancient injustices of "anglos" but yet you are totally oblivious to all of the injustices that are being committed against your fellow hispanics by the elite classes in your ancesteral homelands.  Just think about it, the Mexican media-magnate Carlos Slim is the richest man in the world yet on the streets of Mexico city children are begging for enough food to eat.  Does this not tell you something about the nature of Mexican society?  When was the last time you saw a child begging on the streets here in the US?  Obviously, our society is functionally better than yours, and this is evidenced by the thousands of Latin Americans who "vote with their feet" everyday to come here.

Moreover, it is not like America has some kind of monopoly on historical misdeeds, just pick up a history book from any culture over any time period and you will see plenty of evidences of wrongs done by one group to another, it is a part of human nature.

Let's just start by teaching some real Mexican history why don't we, we'll start by talking about how the Aztecs brutally conquered all of their neighbors and then routinely sacrificed them by the hundreds to their blood-thirsty Gods and then afterward cannibalized the meat of their non-Aztec victims.  Next we will go on to the part about how Cortez was able to conquer the entire Aztec empire with only 500 men because the Aztec's subjugated races all welcomed the Spanish as liberators and were more willing to throw their support behind a foreign white conquistador than their fellow mesoamerican rulers who had been brutalizing them for centuries before Europeans found the place.

We could go on and on, with any culture you can imagine, pointing out all the wrongs and misdeeds that occurred, but what would be the point?  History is not about assigning blame to one group or another, it is about about learning the mistakes of the past so that we can avoid them in the future.  In public schools It is also about giving us a common background so that we can better understand the ideals of our society.  Maybe some of these illegal immigrants should take some of the lessons they learn in our taxpayer funded history classes and bring them back to Mexico so they can attempt to reproduce some of the success we have had here in their homeland.

JUSTICEFORALL
JUSTICEFORALL

CAMBIUM ADMITTED THEY NEVER WERE SHOWN HARDLY ANY BOOKS, NEVER GOT TO SPEND MORE THAN 30 MINUTES IN A CLASS, SPENT 1 WEEK SEEING 39% OF THE CLASSES NOT MORE THAN ONCE EACH AND WE FOUND OUT THAT THE ADMINISTRATORS OF MEX-AMERICAN STUDIES REFUSED TO COOPERATE WITH THEM OR MEET WITH THEM.  THEIR OPINIONS WERE POORLY MADE BY HARDLY ANY EVIDENCE.  IF THEY HAD READ JUST 1 OR 2 OF THE MOST POPULAR MAS BOOKS, THEY WOULD HAVE SEEN THE CALL FOR REVOLUTION, THE HATRED TOWARD WHITE PEOPLE, THE COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA BEING TAUGHT TO THE KIDS. THESE AUDITORS SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PAID (MAKES US WONDER IF SOMEONE ELSE WAS PAYING THEM,ALSO!) AS THEY NEVER DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO!

tinyURL
tinyURL

AZ Republic's Doug MacEachern, Tealaban-lunatic extraordinaire and MASD-hater, has 8 (EIGHT) days without making any hateful comments about the audit’s results or insulting the children taking this class and their families. Please visit his blog and demand a public comment from the hater.Thanks!

tinyURL
tinyURL

AZ Republic's Doug MacEachern, Tealaban-lunatic extraordinaire and MASD-hater, has 6 (SIX) days without making any hateful comments about the audit’s results or insulting the children taking this class and their families. Please visit his blog and demand a public comment from the hater.Thanks!

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

I am so tired of all the America-bashing that the supporters of these MASD program keep engaging in.  If America was such a terrible place for hispanics than why is it that so many millions of people from Latin America are risking so much to get here?  Show me one Latin American county that has a functional welfare system or public schooling for all its citizens (and illegal immigrants).  You all rail against the ancient injustices of "anglos" but yet you are totally oblivious to all of the injustices that are being committed against your fellow hispanics by the elite classes in your ancesteral homelands.  Just think about it, the Mexican media-magnate Carlos Slim is the richest man in the world yet on the streets of Mexico city children are begging for enough food to eat.  Does this not tell you something about the nature of Mexican society?  When was the last time you saw a child begging on the streets here in the US?  Obviously, our society is functionally better than yours, and this is evidenced by the thousands of Latin Americans who "vote with their feet" everyday to come here.

Moreover, it is not like America has some kind of monopoly on historical misdeeds, just pick up a history book from any culture over any time period and you will see plenty of evidences of wrongs done by one group to another, it is a part of human nature.

Let's just start by teaching some real Mexican history why don't we, we'll start by talking about how the Aztecs brutally conquered all of their neighbors and then routinely sacrificed them by the hundreds to their blood-thirsty Gods and then afterward cannibalized the meat of their non-Aztec victims.  Next we will go on to the part about how Cortez was able to conquer the entire Aztec empire with only 500 men because the Aztec's subjugated races all welcomed the Spanish as liberators and were more willing to throw their support behind a foreign white conquistador than their fellow mesoamerican rulers who had been brutalizing them for centuries before Europeans found the place.

We could go on and on, with any culture you can imagine, pointing out all the wrongs and misdeeds that occurred, but what would be the point?  History is not about assigning blame to one group or another, it is about about learning the mistakes of the past so that we can avoid them in the future.  In public schools It is also about giving us a common background so that we can better understand the ideals of our society.  Maybe some of these illegal immigrants should take some of the lessons they learn in our taxpayer funded history classes and bring them back to Mexico so they can attempt to reproduce some of the success we have had here in their homeland.

Jason
Jason

It appears that Pearce's hatred of Hispanics has rubbed off on Huppenthal.

Then again, Huppenthal is a Republican and an idiot. He knew full well that the TUSD did not violate some ambiguous law regarding MAS but went on TV lying through his teeth, as all career politicians do, saying that the MAS had violated this asinine, bullshit, confusing law.

I tell you, it's time to recall all Arizona politicians. They have never cared about the people they represent. They have only cared about themselves and the big corporations.

tinyURL
tinyURL

AZ Republic'sDoug MacEachern, Tealaban-lunaticextraordinaire and MASD-hater, has three days withoutmaking any comments about the audit’s results or insulting the children takingthis class and their families. Please visit his blog demanding a public commentfrom the hater.

FunStuff
FunStuff

Remember when Huppenthal said during his campaign he could do a lot with so little.  Now he goes before the mercy seat and asks for more money.  What a backpeddler, liar and a cheat.

Brophy6
Brophy6

Huppenthal should quit paying enormous salaries to the First Things First employees and get down to business.

Mistalee
Mistalee

They should rename public school American History "Anglo Mythology" and make it an elective. 

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

"No wonder MASD's students are willing to risk jail protesting the possible elimination of these classes.  Were I in their sneakers, I'd do the same damn thing."

Bullshit you would.  All you would do would sit on your fat ass and whine about it, or probably write another misleading article.  It is telling that you elect to leave out any of the criticism of the report, such as the glaring fact that the 11 teachers and administrators of the TUSD MASD refused to cooperate with the Cambium auditors on the advise of their attorneys.  This fact is repeated time and time again in the audit.  Even the Republic reports on this fact:

"Tucson district officials failed to provide any student homework to the department or the auditors for the two investigations.

'When they say the students' coursework is not available, that's a statement,' Huppenthal said. 'When their staff will not cooperate, that's a statement.'

The uncooperative staff Huppenthal referenced consists of 11 teachers and Sean Arce, director of the Mexican American Studies Department, who have a pending lawsuit against the Arizona Department of Education.

Tucson District Superintendent John Pedicone said the teachers and Arce were told by their lawyers not to talk to auditors or the department while their case is awaiting a hearing."

Even the TUSD President agrees with Huppenthal:

"Tucson district governing-board President Mark Stegeman said the contradiction made little difference to him.

'It doesn't actually bother me that much, because the instructors in the program have been complaining about the auditor all along,' Stegeman said. 'It seems to me at this point that they all agree that the auditors were not very thorough. So I think it's OK in this case for him (Huppenthal) to get additional information.'"

So everyone agrees that even the auditors were not very thorough.  The auditors themselves admit that they were constantly hampered by a lack of co-operation by the MASD faculty and that they were not given access to information they needed to perform an accurate audit.  This is hardly the smoking gun you make it out to be.  If anything, the lack of cooperation by the MASD faculty seems an admission that they know that what they are teaching is hatred.  Honestly, if they are above-board and this program is benign why are they not willing to cooperate?

JUSTICEFORALL
JUSTICEFORALL

Doug MacEachern evidently has seen Raza Studies' (THE Race's) teaching materials and knows what cr-p is in it  such as quotes such as "kill the gringo" and "execute all white males over age 16..."  He probably has seen "We must destroy capitalism" and how "the answer lies in the powder keg" and "take those scalps"!  Fully explains how these kids are so head-copped they actually believe all the lies! They don't even know Mexico only owned what is today theSW of this nation for only 24 years - that's it!  They were never up here - lies, lies and more lies! The kids are being manipulated and don't even know it! The Mexicans don't care if their own kids get killed as they want to steal what Americans have worked for (this country was never built by illegal aliens but by Americans and legal immigrants!)

Bobby
Bobby

MASD, has been shucking and jiving on giving up the literature of "ethnic studies", proving they're hiding something. It's so obvious they know they'd be exposed for teaching the racist crap they've been teaching.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

Why should he make any comments?  The state has already announced its decision that the TUSD MASD is in violation of state law and the TUSD has stated publicly that they intend to comply with the state law in the time allowed them by the Department of Education.  There really isn't anything to comment about, the deal is done and the MASD is going to be shut down.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

Good luck with your misguided and expensive recall idea, if these people couldn't be beaten in the regular elections what makes you think you have any better chance of beating them in a recall?  Face the facts, we live in a democracy and people with your ideals are in a clear minority, learn to accept it or move somewhere else.

US War Veteran
US War Veteran

Nah, he needs to join the ranks of the unemployed arizonans collecting an unemployment check while he waits for his trial for the felony he just commited.

Bobby
Bobby

This is the essence of the ethnic activists mind set. Indeed, they are the ones steeped in mythology. Anglos created the U.S. You better get off this fantasy of yours. Why? Not because I say it, but because you are GOING TO LOOK LIKE A STUPID FOOL TO 90% OF THE PEOPLE ON EARTH, WHO KNOW THAT ANGLOS CREATED THE UNITEDS STATES OF AMERICA. Yous see, there is no La Raza propaganda machine in the rest of the worlds nations when it comes to American history- so I'm afraid, your only wasting your time with this craziness of yours and at risk of looking stupid to the rest of humanity to boot. Get some counseling or something. I had to answer this last blog, SO UTTERLY ABSURD IS IT.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

Right, and while they are at it they should just start teaching ebonics in school instead of english.

Marcy
Marcy

Indeed it is a statement, keep your uneducated, wrong-headed attempts to meddle with effective, responsible education out of the TUSD.

Mistalee
Mistalee

None of which alters the fact that Heffalump commissioned an audit to back his condemnation of the MASD, the findings of the audit didn't support his bias, so he lied about it.

And there's nothing unreasonable about 11 teachers taking the advice of counsel. They are not charged with any wrongdoing, they are the plaintiffs. And this is SOP.

How often have you heard government agencies say they couldn't comment due to ongoing litigation?

This is no different. Stop trying to make something of nothing.

HuppyHater
HuppyHater

"Honestly, if they are above-board and this program is benign why are they not willing to cooperate?" Because there's a freaking federal lawsuit against Huppenthal ongoing! It's standard for one party to not give the other side ammo in a lawsuit unless under deposition. Tort law 101, pardner.

If the audit sucked, why did Huppy pay $110,000 for it? Give me a break. It didn't back up Huppy's POV, so he ignored it, then he pulled a fast one on the media and suckered them into thinking that the report he paid so much money for supported him lowering the boom. NUMBER ONE FACT HERE: Huppy's own report backs the MAS program.

AZGregory
AZGregory

I personally believe they should have cooperated with the "audit". On the other hand neither you nor I know about the circumstances of their suit and the basis for the advice by their counsel (which may not have been wise). I certainly can understand how they might feel like this audit is biased and rigged from the beginning and how their cooperation would simply be used against them. These are educators who every objective study has said are effective and well-meaning and they have had to endure defamatory comments and ridiculous accusations of communist conspiracies by Horne, et al.  And Horne declared them in violation of the law the very first day it went into effect and the day before his term ended, thus leaving the weak-kneed Huppenthal with a fait accompli that he had to find a way to justify or look like a liberal. Huppenthal and the state are going to end up looking like idiots and bullies if the stick by this plan to declare the district in violation. TUSD can change a couple of text books and eliminate the ticky tack points relied upon for the charges and if there is an evidentiary hearing to justify taking 10% of their budget, a judge is going to throw the stupid case out in a heartbeat.

US War Veteran
US War Veteran

We'll see, we'll see, and the nazi party was going to last for 1000 years.  LOL, you're a joke.

Mistalee
Mistalee

To the contrary, the rest of the world knows that this country was already populated when the Anglos got here.

They know that Anglos conducted a rapacious program of genocide against the indigenous peoples, and they know that these people were not "noble savages" but had a culture far more sophisticated than taught in US public school history books.

They also know that much of this country was New Spain, and then Mexico, before it was taken by force of arms.

They know that Anglos like to take credit for the work that was done by millions of African slaves. And Chinese laborers. And other very much NOT Anglo people whose sweat and blood built this country.

In fact, they know that Anglos got where they are in America by lying, enslaving, murdering and stealing.

The rest of the world was not programmed by the false US history taught in US public schools.

Marcy
Marcy

Are you still demanding we learn Elizabethan English?  Purity is important to some folks, other people realize that the world is an ever changing place and get on with their lives.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

Here is an idea for you, how about instead of resorting to meaningless insults you instead attempt to make a rational point against my argument?  Since you have failed to do any rational mind would have to surmise that my point is the more valid.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

As Huppy Hater stated, they don't have to cooperate unless they are under deposition.  This is why if this thing ever gets to court (doubtful) the first thing that the state's attorneys will say is: "the MASD faculty has refused to cooperate with our audits."  So the judge will order another audit and this time order the MASD to cooperate.  So basically all that the MASD has achieved here is to prolong the inevitable.  More importantly, since the TUSD has already indicated that they are going to comply with the orders of the State it really doesn't matter.  The MASD has already lost the support of the only people who could have saved them and it is only a matter of time until the program gets shut down.  This is the price they pay for refusing to cooperate and alienating the public.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

Just because the MASD is engaged in what could very well be nothing more than a frivolous lawsuit against the Department of Education does not mean that their willing refusal to cooperate is excusable.  For example, a person being charged with a crime may have the right to remain silent, but that person's silence itself can very much be used against them in a court of law.  Since the MASD was not under any legal obligation to cooperate they were within their rights to do so.  However, all this does is ensure that if this issue ever does get to court the first thing that will be ordered is a new audit with the MASD under deposition to cooperate this time around.

Why did Huppentahl pay for the audit?  He had to.  The state was in a contractual obligation with the company that performed the audit, I don't think that he had any grounds to deny payment.  Moreover, I am not so sure that the report is as exonerating as you seem to think it is, as the authors of the report state repeatedly that the MASD faculty refused to cooperate and failed to provide requested information that was required to perform a complete audit.

But all of this does not matter in the slightest because the MASD is already as good as dead.  The TUSD has lost all patience with this gang of "rebels without a clue" and it is pretty apparent that they aren't going to continue fighting for them anymore.  Public opinion has turned completely against the program, even among most Tucson voters, and the board obviously does not have the stomach to engage in a lengthy political battle to save a program that is becoming less and less popular by the day.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

"if there is an evidentiary hearing to justify taking 10% of their budget, a judge is going to throw the stupid case out in a heartbeat."

This is quite an assumption, especially considering the way the original law was worded and that the law itself still currently stands uncontested.  Moreover, when a group deliberately refuses to cooperate with a public audit by a neutral third-party it looks bad in court.  My guess is that in the event of a hypothetical "evidentary hearing" the judge will probably request yet another audit and this time order the MASD to cooperate fully.  In the meanwhile, the MASD continues to get its collective ass-kicked in the court of public opinion and the TUSD just wants the whole thing to go away more and more every day.  The stars are aligning against this hateful program and they are losing more allies each day.  The fact that they refuse to cooperate or even consider a moderate proposal to continue as an elective program shows that these people are completely unreasonable and self-centered in their goals, which isn't going to play well in court either.

Maxonepercent
Maxonepercent

Firs rule of the internet message board debate: the first one to compare his opponent to a nazi loses.

Maxonepercent
Maxonepercent

Let me paraphrase you here: "I can't think for myself so I am just going to parrot whatever mistalee says cause he sounds smart".  Secondly, if you really believe every article you pull off of a google search is fact that you are truly an idiot.  How ironic that someone whose primary educational resource is the google search would insult the education of someone else.

US War Veteran
US War Veteran

Google is your friend, the rest of the world knows what Mistalee said is the truth, of course I dont expect you to know that, specially if you are a product of the Arizona public education system, here is the part where some college would have helped you expand your mind. 

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

And how is it that you know this? Give us proof of these foreign classes teaching hatred of America or I call bullshit.  You are just projecting your feelings of inadequacy, low self-esteem, and  irrational hatred of white people out upon some ambiguous "rest of the world" to somehow validate your feelings.  Pick up a history book from any culture over any time period and you will see plenty of evidences of wrongs done by one group to another over and over again, it is a part of human nature.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

No one has spoken or written "Elizabethan English" in about 400 years so the answer to your question would be "no".  However, what I am demanding is that we all learn standard American English and here is my reasoning: the purpose of public education is to teach a standard form of communication that all members of society have in common, that way we all share the same "baseline" and can communicate effectively with other people who may have very different backgrounds than ourselves.

If we go around teaching different forms of "english" to different people than it will not take too long before we are all speaking different languages and we will lose our ability to communicate with one another.  In the long run this kind of process will only lead to more division and disunity.

I think the teaching of standard English is an excellent analogy for the teaching of history.  If we continue to teach different forms of history to different groups of people we are only erasing any common unity we have as Americans and encouraging more divisions and dissent among the different groups that make up our society.  The purpose of public education should be to bring us all together and give us a common baseline to build upon, not divide us into different groups that oppose and resent one another.

Maxonepercent
Maxonepercent

First of all, anyone who types in all-caps is an obvious moron, so there is that.  Secondly, your statement has no grounds.  I have been backing up my arguments with logic and reason, you (and your kind in general) can't do anything but resort to angry insults to prove your point.  Last, if that is the best insult you can come up with than you do indeed have a very weak mind.

US War Veteran
US War Veteran

Here let me give you a little taste of my weak mind:

SHUT THE FUCK IMBECILE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

How is that for insult?

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

As if you have any grounds to claim any more expertise than I do, you can't even write a coherent sentence without having to resort to profanity and insults, both of which are clear indications of a weak mind and poor rational ability.

Mistalee
Mistalee

You've already demonstrated that you have no fucking clue about basic legal procedure so stop trying to pretend otherwise. 

Maxonepercent
Maxonepercent

I laughed out loud when I read this comment.  I think you may want to look up the word irony.  Just look at yourself, you are typing in all-caps calling someone else stupid and yet you have nothing to say but a bunch of half-thought out moronic utterances.  Here is the obvious truth that your post points out, you are angry at the facts apparent in my posts but you are mentally handicapped and therefore unable to respond with anything intelligent yourself so you are lashing out like the stupid animal you are.

US War Veteran
US War Veteran

GOD DAMN YOU'RE STUPID!!!!!!!!!!

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY, NOBODY HERE WANTS TO READ THE BULLSHIT YOU'RE POSTING, YOU'RE JUST MAKING NOISE.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

First of all, let's be perfectly clear here, we are talking about purely hypothetical scenarios that have yet to occur.  As it is right now the state has determined that the TUSD MASD is in violation of a state law and has graciously given the district several months to come into compliance, if it isn't in compliance at that time the state will start withholding education funds.  The district has not made any indication that they are going to oppose the state's decision, so it is very likely that the program will be shut down in the not too distant future.

Please pay attention to the topic of the article and the discussion at hand, which is a report about the MASD pertaining to the state's decision concerning said law.  The thrust of the article is that someone, perhaps the TUSD, could use this report as grounds to oppose the Department of Education's decision in court.  I pointed out that this report is not particularly helpful in that regard because the report indicates that the MASD faculty were deliberately uncooperative.  Someone pointed out that they were not required to be cooperative, THIS is the point of contention here.  The separate, and as far as I can tell to date unspecified, lawsuit by the MASD against the DOE is not the issue here (beyond the MASD using this lawsuit as an excuse to by uncooperative with the state auditors).

My point is that If the anyone were to attempt to use this report to appeal the state's decision in court is going to inevitably have to explain why the MASD were uncooperative.  Considering that the state has already performed its own audit that proves the law is being violated by the MASD program it seems likely that the ruling authority in this hypothetical case is either going to side with the state based on the merits of all the other information they have provided or possibly order yet another audit and this time require that the MASD faculty be forthcoming and cooperative.  This is where Baxter vs. Palmigiano comes into play, because at this point, once the MASD is under subpoena to co-operate with the investigation, if they continue to remain silent the state is free to thereby make the assumption that their refusal to comply is an admission of non-compliance with the state law.

More importantly than any of this, however, is the fact that all of this will probably never happen.  The state has already made its decision, the TUSD has indicated that they will comply and the MASD is dead in the water and about to get axed.  The propagandist responsible for this article is simply trying to muddy the waters with misrepresentations and hypothetical scenarios.

Mistalee
Mistalee

What you said -

"For example, a person being charged with a crime may have the right toremain silent, but that person's silence itself can very much be usedagainst them in a court of law."

It was and is bullshit. A person charged with a crime has the right to remain silent, and their exercise of that right cannot be held against them.

If you want to talk about this civil proceeding, you should be aware that the teachers are the plaintiffs, not the defendants, in this civil case. It is hard to imagine a scenario where the plaintiffs in a civil case have an issue of self-incrimination, since they do not stand accused of anything.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

OK mister legal scholar, here is some information for you:

In terms of a party refusing to testify in a civil case (which is what the MASD faculty are doing) the US Supreme Court in Baxter v. Palmigiano held that “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.”  In that case the state was entitled to an adverse inference against Palmigiano because of the evidence against him and his assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege.

In other words, refusing to cooperate with a legal investigation by the state in a civil matter is protected by the 5th Amendment but the state is perfectly justified in interpreting their refusal as an admission of fault.

Mistalee
Mistalee

 "Like it or not, her refusal to answer the question is admissible in court."

Again, no, it's not. You really don't know fuck-all about the Bill of Rights, do you?

Why don't you look up the Fifth Amendment to the Bill of Rights, and the criminal court practices associated with it, and come back when you can speak intelligently and not just make shit up.

maxonepercent
maxonepercent

 Alright, let me spell it out for you in the simplest terms possible:

Casey Anthony is on the witness stand and the prosecutor asks:

"Did you kill your daughter?"

Casey Anthony says nothing.

The prosecutor asks the judge to tell her that she must answer.  Casey Anthony then replies:

"On the advice of my attorney I am going to refuse to answer that question"

Now, legally she is allowed to do that under the protection of the 5th Amendment, but how do you think that looks to the jury?  Like it or not, her refusal to answer the question is admissible in court.  The same is true for the MASD faculty in this case.  So far they haven't been subpoenaed to co-operate, but that is the next step here.  In the meanwhile, their refusal to cooperate, while legal, still carries with it some additional ramifications, not the least of which is the loss of confidence it instills in the TUSD.

Now it's my turn:

Stop trying to pretend like you know the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground because it is quite obvious that you don't and it is kind of embarrassing to watch you flail like a drowning man with his head stuck up his ass.

Mistalee
Mistalee

"Just because the MASD is engaged in what could very well be nothingmore than a frivolous lawsuit against the Department of Education doesnot mean that their willing refusal to cooperate is excusable."

Actually, it means their refusal to provide information on advice of counsel is 100 percent reasonable as well as "excusable."

"For example, a person being charged with a crime may have the right toremain silent, but that person's silence itself can very much be usedagainst them in a court of law."

WTF? No, it can't. When a defendant has invoked his fifth amendment right in a criminal trial, instructions to the jury ALWAYS include the admonition that the defendant's silence is not evidence of guilt and that no adverse inferences may be drawn from the failure to testify.

Stop talking stupid shit.

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