New York City Proves Obvious in Arizona: Any Criminal Can Score a Gat at a Gun Show

Now if you could only buy nuclear weapons this way...

Tucson killer Jared Lee Loughner didn't get his gun through a gigantoid flea-market-type gun show, where any criminal can buy a Glock and some extended mags, cash and carry.

Actually, Loughner copped his gat from a licensed gun dealer. He passed the "instanf" FBI background check, though if the U.S. Military had shared the results of Loughner's drug test with the feds, he would likely have been blocked from purchasing his widowmaker legally.

But even if he had flunked the background check, Loughner could've just waited for the next big gun show to come to town. There, he could have easily purchased his Glock and his 31-round mags and avoided the background check altogether.

This is hardly news. The "gun show loophole" as it's known allows private, non-licensed dealers to sell firearms without the instant background check. Investigators from the Big Apple recently attended Phoenix's Crossroads of the West Gun Show, and -- surprise, surprise -- they were able to buy semi-automatic handguns sans background checks.

Yeah, gramps, I just got out of prison, what's the best gun to surprise your parole officer with?

This, though the undercover operatives admitted to the sellers that they probably couldn't pass a background check if they had to.

The sellers aren't supposed to sell to those they suspect of being prohibited possessors. But in the hillbilly, swap-meet atmosphere of a gun show, folks ain't too particular about following federal statutes.

After all, that could really cut into the profit margin if every rinky dink operator had to make sure each customer wasn't a prohibited possessor or a Mexican national in town to buy weapons with a fake Arizona I.D.

Loughner should've hit the gun shows, saved himself some trouble....

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced the results of his city's investigation today, along with videos of pretend criminals buying guns like they were garden tools. I can tell you zero eyebrows will be raise here in Sand Land, though. Some states require background checks for all gun buys, but the Grand Canyon State isn't one of them.

Maybe Bloomberg and other like-mainded politicos can prevail on the U.S. Congress to close the gun show loophole. That seems doubtful with the U.S. House in GOP/Tea Party control. Nevertheless, kudos to Bloomberg for the college try.

My Voice Nation Help
17 comments
Rick
Rick

A few years ago, a guy killed over a hundred people in a New York social club with a bottle of gasoline and a match. I haven't heard anyone calling for regulating sales of matches or gasoline. The fact is that it's difficult to keep anything out of the hands of criminals or crazy people, without infringing on the rights of the rest of us.

And by the way, New York has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It's almost impossible to get a permit to carry one unless you have a lot of money and/or influential friends. Is anybody going to make the case that you're safer in New York City than in Phoenix?

Rob
Rob

Several years ago during a Great White concert a club burned due to poor pyrotechnics and 96 were killed.

I'd gladly support a ban on Great White and shitty concert pyrotechnics.

USAdefender1
USAdefender1

Nweng,

So you worry about how easy it is to buy a gun because guns are??????

Well it's easy to buy booze 7/11 and get into a car and cause an accident and kill!It's easy to buy drugs on the street and people can go nuts and kill or kill to buy more drugs!It's easy to buy poisons at a hardware store that can poison and kill people!It’s easy to buy kitchen knives at Sears that can stab and kill people!It's easy to buy ect. ecT, eCT. ECT. ECt. Ect. ect!.

Nweng we need lots and lots of new laws!

USAdefender1

Nweng
Nweng

I'm not talking about legally buying alcohol.I'm not talking about buying illegal drugs.I'm not talking about buying poison at the hardware store.I'm not talking about buying a knife at Sears.What I am talking about is the ease of a prohibited possessor to buy a handgun in the state of Arizona. The fact of the matter is, that if you're prohibited or can't pass a NICS check, it's as simple as buying from some privately. Don't make this discussion out to be anything other than that. For some reason I believe it would be a conservative issue to work to keep a deadly weapon out of the hands of someone who shouldn't have one; but, Arizona works to make it easier.

Rob
Rob

Let's take your analogies as they're currently applied to guns here....

Well it's easy to buy booze 7/11 and get into a car and cause an accident and kill!It's also against the law to drink and drive. There's also a good chance the clerk at 7/11 and the franchise owner will be sued for that; and prosecuted; and do time in prison. Can someone sue the clerk and store that sells a gun that used in a crime? Will they be prosecuted?

It's easy to buy drugs on the street and people can go nuts and kill or kill to buy more drugs!Drugs are illegal and highly regulated. Laws were written so that people would not harm themselves.Guns are not illegal and are not regulated.

It's easy to buy poisons at a hardware store that can poison and kill people!And how often are 19 people killed or injured by a box of poison?

It’s easy to buy kitchen knives at Sears that can stab and kill people!Again, when was the last time 1 person was able to take a Ginsu from Sears and take out 19 people.

The simple fact is that there has been legislation passed for many of those items you list in attempts to dissuade people and make it more difficult to obtain.

Our gun laws, however, have - and continue to go - in the exact opposite direction. Instead of trying to dissuade or make things more difficult, Arizona legislators want to MAKE IT EASIER. Where is the sense in that?

And before you start Daniel...I own guns.

As far as needing new laws..I'd suggest you take a look at Pearce's page on the Senate website...your going to be scrolling for a long, long time to go through all the new stuff he's a sponsor of....

USAdefender1
USAdefender1

Rob,

Regulate machete sales to prevent people like Juan Corona in California from killing 25 people!Regulate the sale of rope to prevent people like Ronald Dominique from killing 23 people!Regulate the sale of knives to prevent people like Vaughn Greenwood from slashing the throats of 9 people!

Any item can kill. The problem for many of you is the magnitude of the Tucson killings. I would agree that they were horrific and that it was a gun in the hands of a lunatic that caused the deaths. In the U.S. Millions of gun transactions take place every year with few tragedies in comparison.

As for scrolling down the long list you mentioned you are right but the problem is not just with him alone but every politician who believes that a successful run in politics is measured by the number of laws he or she was able to pass. It would be a novel thought if we could measure success by the number of laws not passed or by the number of laws decommissioned and removed from the books. It used to be said that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Can we still say this with the number of new laws passed every year in every city, county, state and on a federal level?

We should pay legislators to stay home!

USAdefender1

P.S. Nweng I have no problem impeding criminals from getting their hands on firearms as long as it does not impend on mine to buy more.

Nweng
Nweng

I'm a gun owner/buyer myself, NICS checks don't bother me since I have my CCW. If you don't have any problem buying from a FFL, I don't think having a NICS check on a private sale would cause you any heartburn. Now the question is, how do you implement it? My suggestion would be a quick stop at the local cop shop should do the trick; but, we'll see what they come up with. Also, if you have your CCW, that's good enough for me. Honestly, I don't buy/sell/trade with anyone who doesn't have one.

Rob
Rob

And millions more sales for other items that can kill take place every year..car sales (though they know all about you), baseball bats, golf clubs, bottled beer/soda and 16 ton weights.

Thing is, they are not used in the death of 17,000 people each year.

Look, I'm all for the right to keep and bear, I'll stand by you (strange as it may seem) on that one. But, gun show/private sales are a clear end around to a person who wants a gun. I've been to several shows and nobody who's gone - who can also be honest - cannot say they've not seen suspect things take place. While the % of transactions to the amount of deaths due to guns may be statistically now, I'd still say 17,000 deaths and uncountable crimes where a gun was used is a high enough number to warrant closer scrutiny and, using common sense, should not be a reason to call for more lax gun laws.

It is very hard to keep up with legislation, your correct on that and it does seem to me that we are already paying legislators to stay home...

J Curwen
J Curwen

As you noted, the background check wouldn't have stopped Loughner. In his case, as in many, the gun show option wasn't even relevant. Also as noted, with the Republicans in charge both here and in the US House, nothing is going to happen. So why fret about the silly 60 Minutes antics of some uptight New Yorkers?

Murcielagomeister
Murcielagomeister

You realize that these transactions are already a felony under existing federal law, right? Why is this a case for new laws? Do you want to make it "illegaler"?

USAdefender1
USAdefender1

Gun shows facilitate the sale and purchase of firearms between private citizens and MORONS are all prissy about it,

Backpage puts firearm sellers and buyers together and the same MORONS say nothing.

I like the idea of private citizens having the ability to engage in private firearms transactions. I’ve purchased firearms at licensed dealers, gun shows, garage sales and even thru ads on Backpage.

USAdefender1

P.S. I wonder who owns backpage????? Opp’s!

Nweng
Nweng

There are only two requirements to privately buy/sell/transfer firearms in this state without that annoying NICS check:1. A (supposedly valid,) AZ drivers license.2. The will to buy/sell/transfer it.

Hey, did you happen to see the article in the AZ Rag about the 2000+ fake IDs recovered in Tempe? Fake IDs? Who'd have thought?

One last thing, convicted felons don't get their driving rights restored, do they? I mean, they're not able to get an AZ drivers license are they? Because it would be bad, in theory of course, if prohibited purchaser could just buy a weapon from some moron who only cares about the money. I'm just glad things like that don't really happen here in AZ.

USAdefender1
USAdefender1

Morons believe that felons can be rehabilitated so I'm curious if you are like me? That the only good felon is a dead felon! If so, then I guess that fake ID problem would not be much of a problem with regards to firearms and would be limited to keeping young kids from buying booze.

USAdefender1

Nweng
Nweng

No, I just don't believe our government should make it so easy for a convicted felon to be able to buy a gun. We're not even attempting to put up a sorry ass roadblock; if someone is a prohibited possessor or can't pass a simple NICS, all they have to do is go to a gun show and/or buy privately, no questions asked. If that's the best we got, why have any sort of prohibition at all? You're not going to be able to stop a determined person from buying a gun; but, you don't have to make it so damn easy either.

Annie Oakley
Annie Oakley

Then old Pruneface is defending the gun show sales. Why doesn't she just k!$$ Wayne LaPierre's million dollar south facing horse's end while she is at it.

WhoKnows
WhoKnows

If a private seller at a gun show can't run a background check, how about if the seller gives it to the cops until a background check can be done by them? The buyer can pick it up after the check.

When you sell a car, the title can't be transferred until the deal is verified and the tags get transferred.

Crow
Crow

WTF? Busted. Not even explainable.

Now Trending

Around The Web

From the Vault

 

Loading...