Joe Arpaio Punks the Feds Yet Again?

joecrazyhat222.jpg
The feds let themselves get played by this guy? What the hell's wrong with them?

Delay, delay, delay. Thow up legal obstacles. Thumb your nose. Hold out till what seems like the last minute. Appear to compromise. Start all over again, and never give anything up unless you absolutely have to. Even then, you can always keep the worst stuff back.

This is the shell game Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his minions play on a regular basis, either with the county, people suing the MCSO, or in this latest case, the U.S. Department of Justice's year-plus civil rights probe into Arpaio & Co.

Last week, after the DOJ-imposed deadline passed on the MCSO allowing access to all the docs, facilities, and employees the DOJ wanted, the DOJ blinked and agreed to a meeting with Arpaio's peeps rather than sue. It looked like a punk-out then, not just a last minute reprieve.

Now Fox News' Mike Levine has reported that the DOJ's weenied out, yet again. This, from Levine's piece yesterday:

"Both sides entered Tuesday's meeting skeptical that anything would come of it. But what was expected to be a brief meeting inside the main Justice Department building turned into a two-and-a-half-hour `back and forth,' as one of Arpaio's lawyers, Bob Driscoll, described it.

"`I think we made great progress,' said Driscoll, a partner in firm Alston and Bird's Washington office. `I wasn't incredibly optimistic, but we've said all along that if the Department was willing to articulate what they were investigating and define what they were looking for, we'd respond to reasonable requests. And to a large extent they did that today.'

"A Justice Department spokeswoman, meanwhile, said her department is `hopeful that today's meeting' will `prove productive,' insisting the department's `goal all along has been to gain voluntary compliance' with its requests."

Um, "voluntary compliance"? You want voluntary compliance from a guy who held a press conference in July of last year announcing that he would not cooperate with you? Arpaio stonewalled for another year, forced the DOJ to send him a letter threatening legal action if he didn't comply by August 17, then let that deadline pass?

So the DOJ buckles, agrees to a meet with Joe's DC mouthpiece, and lets him slide once more.

They should start calling Joe the "Teflon Don."

No wonder our geezer gendarme has zero respect for the federal government and the law. Based on this latest evidence of the feds' lack of spine, I may stop paying my taxes.

My Voice Nation Help
31 comments
Sort: Newest | Oldest
Emil Pulsifer
Emil Pulsifer

"chicagonut" wrote:

"What do you have? Just an anti-American stance based on misplaced compassion for foreign law breakers with no compassion for your fellow Americans."

There's nothing anti-American about being pro-immigrant. For the first 148 years of this country's history, from 1776 to 1924, there were NO immigration quotas (the ban on the Chinese notwithstanding). One could argue that it's the post-war, big-government control of the free movement of labor (an essential part of a free-market) that marked the beginning of anti-American policies.

But if you're really concerned about the legality of immigration, and not immigration per se, the solution is simple: expand the absurdly unrealistic immigration quotas until they are large enough to accomodate demand for Mexican laborers, and illegal immigration slows to a trickle.

All of the kidnappings, drop houses, ID theft, and all of the other problems associated with illegal immigration, will dry up. The vast sums that we now spend on ineffective border "control" can be reduced by 9/10ths and spent effectively on enforcement against the criminal cartel members who will be excluded from the legal immigration process. Equally vast sums spent on detention centers and courts clogged with hundreds of thousands of immigration cases (involving nothing more than a violation of federal civil law) can be redirected to enforcement, adjudication, and prison costs for serious criminals (from whatever country).

I would also expect legal workers to be able to demand unpaid overtime, improved wages, etc., without being fired -- or at least with the same (limited) success that native-born Americans can, which should lessen downward wage pressures caused by illegal immigration. Strengthening the state's (and the nation's) labor laws to give union organizers and representatives a level playing field with employers should do the rest.

None of this is anti-American. None of it is against the interests of society at large. None of it is anti-law enforcement.

Emil Pulsifer
Emil Pulsifer

"chicagonut" wrote:

"Whatever taxes [illegal aliens] do pay doesn't begin to cover their social costs. I provided stats on it under another post."

Well, let's see. That 1 cent sales tax that Brewer just got, 2/3 of which is reserved for education funding, is funded by every single illegal immigrant that buys goods and services in Arizona, as are all other sales taxes, state and local. They pay property taxes also, directly as owners or indirectly through their rent (since landlords pass along their property taxes to tenants). They also pay excise taxes (e.g., on tobacco and alcohol), and most of them pay payroll taxes. They don't have any choice.

As for federal income taxes, most of them don't make enough to owe any, though there are plenty of instances of illegal immigrants paying income taxes (just ask any of them tax accounting firms catering to them).

So, they pay about the same taxes they would if they were legal residents. They're taxpayers. IF they cost more than they pay in taxes, then so do legal workers at the lower end of the wage scale. How are they any different in that respect?

According to a study by the University of Arizona, illegal aliens increased the state's economic output by $29 billion in 2004:

http://portal.sre.gob.mx/tucso...

That same year, total state government expenditures were $14.2 billion:

http://www.usgovernmentspendin...

I'd call that a bargain.

The state of Texas published "a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state's budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services" for 2005, which found that illegal aliens paid more in state taxes than they cost the state in services. The report found that the opposite was true for local (city and county) governments, due entirely to hospital costs.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/...

But put the two together, and the net cost is far less than the $1.4 billion that Texas spends annually on tax subsidies for the oil and gas industries and their consumers:

http://www.window.state.tx.us/...

Emil Pulsifer
Emil Pulsifer

"chicagonut" wrote:

"We have asked that e-verify be implemented across the board so the employers can't get away with it anymore and the job magnet would be gone for the illegals."

E-verify only encourages identity theft: that's why there has been a proliferation of it, as undocumented workers shift from using fictitious Social Security numbers (which hurt nobody) into real but stolen Social Security numbers, which E-verify CANNOT detect. In fact, Arizona has the highest identity theft rate per capita. So, if your idea is to encourage ID theft without slowing illegal immigration, then E-verify is for you. Nationally, only about 2.6 percent of employers use E-verify. Nothing in federal law requires it and individual states create a patchwork of laws. Even here in Arizona only about a third of the state's employers are registered with E-verify. Arizona's supposedly tough employer sanctions law states that all employers in Arizona shall use E-verify, but it fails to specify a single penalty for failure to use it. http://www.azcentral.com/arizo... So, you have a situation where use of E-verify is left to the discretion of individual states; a state that is absolutely toothless in enforcing a technical "requirement" to use it; and a system that, when used, does not stop illegal immigrants from getting jobs but does force them to used stolen IDs to do so; and that leads to a bumper crop of criminal behavior with vast implications for society at large, affecting everything from credit scores and availability, to problems obtaining loans, to harassment by debt collectors, to mistaken criminal warrants that could result in your arrest the next time you get pulled over for speeding. Sleep well, America: E-verify is on the job!

"chicagonut" also wrote:

"E-verify has been proven to be over 95% accurate where it has been used."

Nope. "Two years after Arizona began requiring all employers to use a federal online program to ensure a legal workforce, a new study indicates that illegal workers are slipping through the system more than half of the time by using stolen identities."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizo...

Expect that percentage to increase, the more E-verify is used.

chicagonut
chicagonut

Yes, I am aware of the stats of costs that Arpaio has incurred in court. Have you ever heard of settling without admission of guilt? Powerful ethnocentric groups like the NCLR, LULAC, etc. are behind all of this. They take a detainees word that they were mistreated and run to court with it. Of course these detainees nor those groups are biased with an agenda, now are they? Yeah, right! Wrongful deaths? Another one where things happen in jail. People get sick and die but that doesn't mean that LE was at fault. Just more smear tactics by those who can't stand the enforcement of our immigation laws. I'll wait and see what happens with the DOJ before I write Arpaio off.

chicagonut
chicagonut

Still repeating the same lie that the majority of Americans are responsible for illegal aliens being here? You know damned will it is the greedy employers and the desire of our government to placate them not your everyday law abiding American. When we purchase goods we have no way of knowing if illegal alien labor was involved. It is up to the employers to check the validity of their employees not the American public. What are we supposed to do? Stop buying groceries and other need items at stores just because there "might" have been an illegal alien labor involved? Don't be ridiculous!

We have asked that e-verify be implemented across the board so the employers can't get away with it anymore and the job magnet would be gone for the illegals. But no, the employers, our government and people like you fight it all the way. You're in bed with these crooks. How does that make you feel? E-verify has been proven to be over 95% accurate where it has been used. We're not looking for perfection just a system with a high accuracy rate such as e-verify to put an end to illegal hiring practicies.

You're full of crap to if you think we haven't been up in arms over illegal immigraton for years now. So keep your BS statements to yourself about us all of a sudden wanting them gone because times are hard. It started affecting our taxes years and years ago and the crowding of our schools and hospitals. It is just that our goverment, the employers and people like you care more about illegal foreigners than your own fellow citizens. Whatever taxes they do pay doesn't begin to cover their social costs. I provided stats on it under another post.

Mike Wells
Mike Wells

I think that the DOJ is just really not believing that this would happen. I think they are going into these meetings saying "He's just GOT to have a good reason for this.", and when he doesn't, they are completely flabbergasted. Hopefully they will catch on to this soon and just follow through with their threats.

Fuck Arpaio
Fuck Arpaio

What a bunch of bullshit, fuck the feds, fuck Arpaio.

chicagonut
chicagonut

Rob,

First off I am not an Arpaio supporter per se. I do support our LE though until it is proven in a court of law that they are not administrating their duties in the proper way within the laws of our country. If Arpaio doesn't pass the scrutiny of the DOJ I will be on board with the rest of you on that issue. Until then I don't convict anyone just because I have a self-serving agenda all of my own.

Whenever the subject of Arpaio comes up it is directly related to illegal immigration. Isn't that what you lefties are bitching about that he is enforcing our immigration laws? So, yes the two subjects are completely related.

My baselesss rants? There are plenty of viable stats out there that support my position that illegal aliens are bankrupting our tax coffers because of their social costs regardless of what little taxes they pay and are stealing jobs from Americans that they will do! Even without mentioning their negative impact all I need is the rule of law on my side. What do you have? Just an anti-American stance based on misplaced compassion for foreign law breakers with no compassion for your fellow Americans. Apparently our laws mean nothing to your side unless you want to persecute LE for doing their jobs. The illegal lawbreakers however get a pass from you.

Seems like denial is par for the course for your side along with blatant lies about anyone or anything that includes the enforcement of our immigration laws.

Rob
Rob

Bankrupting the tax coffers? By illegal aliens? You've heard of Afghanistan and Iraq, right? Those two wars have done far more to drain tax coffers than those here illegally.

Two wars that people who came to this country undocumented have fought - and died - in. As well as in every war the US has been involved in.

Add irresponsible spending and bail outs to that list as well. By both sides.

The estimated 12 million illegals do not get a break on paying sales or payroll taxes. 12 million people are not living without buying food, paying for housing, buying clothes, buying cars, the same things you and I pay on a day to day basis. Look up the stats on what the estimated input of illegal aliens in terms of taxes (sales & payroll), social security and spending are. I know you won't do this because you refuse to look at the issue objectively.

You can claim you don't want them here and never did. The fact is, you and every person shopping for the almighty "lower price" has voted with their wallet to keep them here. Personally, as a native Arizonan, if I had my choice, I'd keep the undocumented here and deport all those who migrated here from the Midwest, East Coast and Southern states in the last couple decades.

Outrage? As a country we've been encouraging this for the last few decades to further our economic desires. Now, times are tough so we suddenly say...well, thanks for what you've done but now, get the hell out.

There's no denial on my part of illegal aliens being here and that they do use services provided by the State and Federal governments. Having dealt with it on a day to day basis for the last 30 years I can say your argument is greatly overstated. There's also no denial on my side that these are human beings.

Who should be outraged?

Thad
Thad

"My baselesss rants? There are plenty of viable stats out there that support my position that illegal aliens are bankrupting our tax coffers because of their social costs regardless of what little taxes they pay and are stealing jobs from Americans that they will do!"

There are also plenty of viable stats showing that Arpaio has cost the county tens of millions of dollars in wrongful death suits and that his focus on illegal immigrants has led to a decrease in arrests of violent criminals.

Tina
Tina

Glad Stephen Lemons provided an update of this on his subsequent article. Looks like the DOJ's Civil Rights Division is not messing around from their 5-page 8/25/10 letter of clarified and detailed demands they sent via electronic and First Class mail to Arpaio's D.C. lawyer Robert Driscoll. Moving right along....

http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pd...

SeekingAnswers
SeekingAnswers

Arizona's people continue to suffer setbacks from these delays that are allowing them to destroy lives and keep Maricopa County in constant chaos and uncertainty. Those who can leave the state will continue. Those thinking of relocating will bypass Arizona and forget tourism -- ALL are at risk to get snared in one of the many traps all over the Valley. Meanwhile the taxpayers are being used as their personal piggy-bank! Truly disturbing.

chicagonut
chicagonut

Rob, I note that you have to resort to profanity and insults. So typical of you pro-illegals.

300 million Americans did not encourage illegal aliens to enter our country. It was only the employers for the cheap labor with a wink, wink from our government. They are both corrupt. The majority of Americans do not want illegal aliens in our country and did nothing to encourage them.

It is utter BS that they are doing jobs Americans won't do. The only exception might be crop picking and for that the farmers have unlimited visas for legal immigrant workers but they like the cheap illegal labor instead. Are you telling me that Americans won't do construction work and other blue collar jobs? Who did them before the illegals arrived?

Illegal immigration was a problem way before our economy collapsed. Our tax coffers have been drained covering their social costs for years now.

If Arapio is found guilty by the DOJ for what he is being accused of I will be the first to admonish him,. I don't pick and choose what laws myself or others should follow. We are bound by all of our laws for the common good and so is Arpaio.

Thad
Thad

I would just like to note that the distance between you griping about Rob's use of insults and calling him a "pro-illegal" is 5 words.

Cognitive dissonance: so typical of you talking points machines.

Rob
Rob

The insult I'll fess up too...couldn't resist. Profanity? Guess that's in the eye of the beholder?

Great generalization! Your on your toes.

And, ummmm...no, this discussion was not about illegal immigration. The story was about Arpaio. You went OT with your baseless and unfounded rant. You carried on posting foolish and unfounded statements. You could not stick to the subject of the story and made a vain attempt at misdirection.

But, then again, one could say that's par for the course with Arpaio supporters, right?

Tommy Collins
Tommy Collins

Voluntary compliance only works when MCSO is the one requesting or demanding it. MCSO is not likely to ever comply with anything under the direction and tutelage of the Flaccid Fool.

chicagonut
chicagonut

Gilman,

Where did I say that illegals were thumbing their noses at me? I said they were thumbing their noses at our immigration laws. They are being treated like animals in Az? lol! Yeah, right.

I am outraged about ALL crime. This discussion is about illegal aliens, however. We have no control over American lawbreakers because we can't deport them. We can however control our borders and make sure that we don't add to our crime stats by allowing illegal aliens into our country.

Our immigration laws dictate that we enforce them against ALL illegal aliens and that includes those working illegally in a car wash or any other job they aren't entitled to. You don't care for your family by crashing another country's borders and stealing American jobs and benefits. White criminals? Why only white? Whites are the only ones committing crimes these days? Your racism and bigotry is showing.

Thad
Thad

"We have no control over American lawbreakers because we can't deport them."

...wait, what?

Tina
Tina

I agree that this looks like more of Arpaio's horseshit, conveyed by his lawyer. More of the runaround that is Arpaio's stock and trade. Remember though, that this guy Bob Driscoll, identified as one of Arpaio's lawyers from Driscoll's law firm's Washington DC office, is giving HIS version of the meeting. In two and a half hours, the unnamed DOJ lawyers must have been taking copious notes, possibly recording the meeting, and may have just been giving Arpaio & Company more rope to hang themselves with.

Also, it is not the DOJ spokewoman who is being quoted directly by Mike Levine of FOX News. Her supposed "statement" is second hand from Arpaio's lawyer Driscoll. It seems implausible that the DOJ doesn't by now have Arpaio's wiles and guiles, his accusatory defiance, and his entire M.O. down pat. Maybe New Times can follow up on this one. This meeting and the records request pertains to the investigation of Arpaio's office over accusations of discrimination, unconstitutional searches and seizures, and having an English-only policy in his jails that may discriminate against people with limited English skills. It was reported previously that "Arpaio has said he believes the inquiry is focused on his immigration patrols." Typical of defiant Arpaio, dreaming up any old reason at all to say, "stick it in your ear."

chicagonut
chicagonut

Look what the illegal aliens are getting away with in this country. They have been thumbing their noses at our laws for years. Where is the outrage over that? Instead the illegal alien sympathizers want to see LE hanged for enforcing our immigration laws against them. Sickening!

Thad
Thad

"Look what the illegal aliens are getting away with in this country. They have been thumbing their noses at our laws for years. Where is the outrage over that?"

Yeah, it's weird. You never, ever hear any complaining about illegal immigrants in the press or from politicians.

Rob
Rob

chicagonutsacklicker wrote:

They have been thumbing their noses at our laws for years. Where is the outrage over that?

Should be more like where's the outrage at yourself and the 300 million other Americans who welcomed and encouraged these illegal aliens to come and do the jobs Americans themselves don't want to do. 15 million illegals did not waltz in over the last few months....But, the economy goes to crap and suddenly they are a problem and the finger points at the easiest group there is to pick on.

Arpaio, who is an American citizen (unfortunately), moreso an elected official in public office, should be held to a higher standard and expected to obey all laws.

Dennis Gilman
Dennis Gilman

Chicagonut,

When has an "illegal alien" thumbed his nose at you or anyone else? They are treated worse then animals in this State while white violent crime rises in Arizona as I predicted it would.

Arizonians have seen members of White Supremacist gangs break out of prision and murder innocent people again, Motercyle gangs in N Arizona have gun battles endangering innocent victoms and that is ln less then 30 days and barely the beginning. Where is your outrage?

Get your facts straight. Those who struggle here trying to do the right thing are not the problem. Wasting tax dollars focusing on those working at car washes while you ignore real White crime is pathetic.

Where is that nose thumbing again? Trying to survive, work and take care of your children hardly compares to what White Criminals have been up to lately don't you think?

Fred
Fred

Another self-hating mindless white liberal speaks up.

Thad
Thad

Oh snap, you sure showed him.

Victory
Victory

It's kind of hard to charge someone when you have no evidence. Why do you think it is taking so long and the Feds just kind of blow it off. Nothing from nothing leads to nothing and that is all they have. All of you Joe haters have been after him for years, mostly because he arrested you or someone you know, and you still haven't been able to get anything on him. Joe in 2012!

ZachHenry
ZachHenry

Does that argument not sound completely asinine as you are typing it?

Wondering
Wondering

I'm done! This is the last article I will read about Arpio unless the picture shows him in handcuffs. It just boggles the mind how he can continue to get away with this shit with no reprecussion. I GIVE!!!

Fred
Fred

When will we see the illegal aliens in handcuffs? Ha ha ha, like that would ever happen.

Thad
Thad

@Fred: you make a good point. Illegal immigrants are never arrested in Arizona.

Now Trending

From the Vault

 

Loading...