Phoenix News Blog

I just had to click on the "Satan" tag to see what other New Times items were tied into that. Looks like a new category.

Frankly, I think organized atheism is a little boring. I say that as an unorganized atheist. When I first dropped religion, it had its point and its place. But after that, what was the point? It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Yes, religion is transparent, tiresome nonsense, but what does that make someone who dedicates their life to discussing it, even critically? A bore.

This probably overstates my objections, since I've been known to argue theology myself on occasion, but if I had to choose between attending a tent revival and attending a convention of geeky militant atheists, I might have to pick the former. After all, they might have "speaking in tongues", laying on of healing hands, rolling in the aisles, and maybe even people playing with rattlesnakes -- or at the very least, some inspired soul shouting "ta-ra-ra-boom-dee-ay" at random moments -- all of which is festive if nothing else. Whereas with the atheists, I get to hear a bunch of philosophy I've already figured out and settled on, all of it coming from a bunch of fat comic-book guys with underarm odor and Isaac Asimov sideburns, each brimming with fatuous self-regard and wearing ill-fitting T-shirts bearing not terribly clever atheistic slogans.

Sheriff Joe will try to cover the billboard up with a giant left-over tent.

Nothing wrong with religion having to compete with other philosophies in the marketplace of ideas. I don't necessarily agree with the "anything goes" notion espoused by those who think religion is necessary for moral structure and ethical behavior. Seems to me that's an admission that religion is nothing but social control. That's one of the main reasons I dropped it. I feel insulted by the idea that I'm incapable of determining the right thing to do unless I'm scared of the wrath of some bearded dude in the sky, or angling to win his favor. Since I stopped believing, I'm a more careful and better-behaved person. I figure I only get one go-around so I better not f*&k it up too bad. If I do a bad turn, I don't get to "repent" or "accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior and be forgiven". I mean, not for nothing, but 99% of death row inmates claim to be born-again Christians, from what I hear.

Of course, the list of stuff I perceive as wrong differs from that of the Daddy Dobson crowd. Sorry, but I don't give a fig about who's shagging whom, as long as everyone's consenting and no one is being dishonest. Taking the Lord's name in vain and failing to observe the Sabbath properly are non-issues for me, as are many of the other weird edicts of the Old Testament.

Emil, the atheists you describe sound like the guys I met from Mensa when I made the mistake of taking their cheesy test and going to a few of their meetings back in 2001.

Just more bigotry under the banner of atheism.

So check this out.

This is enough to make anyone consider atheism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExOj7NtcSwo&feature=channel_page

"I wonder what the wing-nuts have to say."

"Typical Liberal God hating bullshit."

Looks like your question was answered swiftly.

And Emil I agree with you up to a point, but I think the true value of these ads is just promoting the idea that not beieving in god isn't some wierd perversion, and that atheists aren't as much of a minority as they think. There's a lot of atheists who haven't come out of the closet because they think they're alone. That way we might increase the pool of people who know both how the universe and underarm deoderant work.

"Godless Atheist"

As opposed to what kind of atheist exactly?

Anonymous: Do you believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy? Do you hate them?

Hold up, Stephen. If there is no God, anything goes? (It wasn't Dostoevsky, by the way, it was one of his characters in "The Brothers Karamazov.") Are you saying that if you didn't believe in God, you would have no reason to behave morally?

Thank you for revealing something about yourself.

And I'm always amused at the hubbub that accompanies these billboards. It doesn't say, "If you believe in God, you are stupid." It doesn't say, "There's no God, now let's all have a naked pool party." It says, "You are not alone." It's trying to embolden non-believers to stand up to the very vocal majority that's trying to introduce religion into every sphere of public life. It's trying to encourage people. How can anyone argue with that?

Oh, my, another one who thinks atheists hate god. No -- we don't hate your biblical god any more than we hate thor, jupiter, vishnu, osiris, or any other mythological being. Why would we waste our energy in such a pointless activity? Though we're not to keen on the things the believers in the current flavor of mythological being do when acting out. (See recent events in Wichita, Pakistan,India, and the less recent events at the World Trade Center.) Atheists don't fly planes into buildings. Or blow up federal buildings complete with little children in day-care. Or murder people in churches. It takes god-fearing right wing nutters armed to the teeth for that.
By the way, I'm pretty tired of the old canard of atheists being hedonists, anything goes types who are just lying in wait to rape, pillage and murder because they have no moral restraints. We're on the whole pretty law abiding types who actually value life quite highly, since we recognize that this one is the only one we have. We tend to believe in actively making the world a better place for other people, since this is their only shot at existence as well. When you come to realize that this life is all there is, every aspect of it becomes more precious, and so do your fellow human beings. When you don't think jesus is going to show up and give you a new planet, you tend to see the over-riding imperative to take care of the one we have, not only for ourselves but for those who come after.
Too bad most of the articles like the one today are written by people who have obviously never had a serious conversation with a living, breathing atheist in their lives.
Oh, and one more thing. Don't bother to point out to me that Stalin was an atheist. Stalin was a madman. When any ideology or person, whether it's kim jong il or jesus or mohammed or mao, national socialism, communism, or evangelical christianity become your god that you follow blindly and without question, bad things can and do happen. History is full of examples. And while some religious apologists try and characterize atheism as a religion, it's like characterizing not collecting stamps as a hobby.

During a time of worldwide recession atheists in the UK and USA are spending hundreds of thousands of donated dollars/pounds not in order to help anyone in need but in order to attempt to demonstrate just how clever they think themselves to be—need any more be said?

Emil, I agree, but the purpose of the billboard, and the gathering, is not to sit around and discuss Richard Dawkins or high-five each other because we think we're so smart and enlightened. Granted, people do that, and it's pretty annoying, but there are serious issues involved beyond that. The purpose of these things is to raise awareness about the large number of non-believers, and gain acceptance in mainstream society, rather than remaining a fringe group that no one understands. The idea is not to rejoice in smug satisfaction, but to reach the point where people, religious or not, at least respect that atheism is a very legitimate belief system. As an atheist, I agree that the arguments against religion are old news, and it's tiresome to repeat them, but not everyone agrees and sees it that way.

Godless atheists? Are there any other kind?

Emil, you hit the nail on the head with your description of atheists who attend meetings mostly to congratulate each other. I'm embarrassed to admit that I kept doing that for far too long after first getting serious about the science vs superstition wars; the meetings were dysfunctional but familiar and therefore comfortable, like a bad habit.

The Tempe Mission Palms Hotel? Isn't that where the Adult Entertainment Industry recently held the Phoenix Forum? My, that was a fun convention!

Wow, our little Sodom or Gomorrah... Bring on the Smut and Godlessness!

Emil and Jeff,

If you think the world revolves around you, then by all means rejoice privately (and apparently publicly) about your individual rescues from religion.

But there are a great many of us, you two included, who are able to see the great damage caused to others by religions. Most of us care about those people that religion is hurting. Perhaps you do not. That's okay by me, not everyone is equipped to fight back, but don't undermine and disparage those who are trying harder than you are to rid the world of the insidious virus of the mind called religion.

Upon reaching the lifeboat, some survivors simply congratulate each other, while others struggle tirelessly to save others. We can all see which kind you are.

If there be an infinite Being, he does not need our help -- we need not waste our energies in his defense.

Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

"I have always strenuously supported
the right of every man to his own opinion,
however different that opinion might be to mine.
He who denies another this right makes
a slave of himself to his present opinion,
because he precludes himself the right of changing it."

Thomas Paine

P.S.

Where's Sharpton?

To the religious... you are a part of the most henious organization and belief structure ever to walk the face of the planet. Murder, bigotry, hatred, active destruction of advancements in knowledge for 2000+ years, slavery, genocide, rape. this list can go on and on, so dont hide behind your "faith-based" works...these are what they amount to often enough. Just look at the faith based "medical" help in subsaharan africa, where they tell people with aids that condoms are evil and must be avoided, and God will punish you for using them. This behavior facilitates the spread of AIDS, and its religiously backed. Oh yeah, so are the childrens armies in the same locations.

and just think, the loss of knowledge the group you are a member of has caused: The Library at Alexandria, the great book burnings of the Middle ages and into the age of enlightenment, and now you fight the LHC at CERN. This is your legacy.

So call me "militant" for calling you out on this, call me "godless" because indeed i am, i want no part of your legacy, and i really hope that you wake up and see the damage it has caused and will continue to cause. You dont have to agree with me, i wont kill because you dont. Just please look at the actions of your fellows and stop them. If you insist on believing, realize the horrors the leaders and message of your churches have caused.

To the athiests who dont like organization, do you wish to help your fellow man? if yes, then get active and change the world, be a force for help and human solidarity. If you dont like the way conventions are held, then get active and make your own, or change the way the current ones are running. Sitting on the sidelines and monday quarterbacking is useless and often counterproductive. If you dont want to help others, or feel that human solidarity is bad, then stay at home and complain about how much smarter you are for not needing help, and let those of us who wish to help do so for others. You are the cause of the slander of athiests, and i dont wish to be lumped in with the Randians.( i say this because most nonbelievers like you that i know profess to follow Ayn Rand, and yet again arguements from authority are bad, remember that.)

Dudes, chill!

Sincerely,
The King of the Jews

Get that BBQ sauce ready, there's a bunch of lost souls ready to burn in hell.

Is this blog post supposed to be sarcastic? Poe's Law seems to always come into play with these sorts of posts. You can;t tell if the author is a plain genius or dumb-witted individual.

I can't believe people would get upset over such a billboard, in a country that is supposed to be secular. This is almost identical to getting upset because churches display signs out front. All this billboard is saying is that atheists basically exist. Oh dear!

Granted, there are some atheists that can be self-righteous assholes(yeah, you don't need religion to be one), and many outspoken atheists SHOULD consider religion because divine intervention is the only thing that could ever get them laid without an exchange of money. But this billboard is NOT an example of that kind of atheism; not by any stretch of the imagination.

Lastly, remember that logically, you cannot say there is no higher being- something that is supernatural by definition, cannot be understood, nor perceived, by beings limited to the natural world. Because of this, my objection to religion is not so much about not believing in some kind of creator or intelligence but rather the preachings of mankind about such a being or deities.

Many religions put forth admirable values, but corrupted by men, class, and various real-world conditions; followers of those religions rarely live up to that ethical standard.

"Get that BBQ sauce ready, there's a bunch of lost souls ready to burn in hell."

I always wondered what the Xtians did with those who burn in hell. So you eat them with barbecue sauce... And you wonder why no one wants to play house with you anymore.

The fact that God's followers seem to think that saying 'Don't believe in God? You are not alone.' i.e. simply stating what you believe and seeking out like-minded individuals, is a *militant* act.

The fact that these religions encourage this kind of insane thinking tells you all you need to know about why religions start wars (gee when you redefine words as 'militant' you are pretty likely to start a war, aren't you?) and why God is a now worthless concept we should all have outgrown.

Thank You Aslan for getting it most correct, with many other valid points being expressed here. If someone is referring to a "bearded dude" that watches over whether you are good or bad, they'd better be thinking of the aforementioned Santa Claus, because that is a false image of my God (there actually can't be any "image" of God). The closest match among all the other sorts of pseudo-deities I know of would be "Mother Nature".

God doesn't even have a gender, so all the religions that have a masculine or feminine form (there is no form) as representations are wrong...

Blame Man for getting carried away with religion, not God...

You may tell me that I can't prove God exists, but I can respond that you can't prove God *doesn't* exist...

And Thank You Stephen for opening such a spirited discussion (more so than immigration and Arpaio, although I love discussing those topics too), but you know that a belief in Satan is based on a belief in God...

chadsnow: I don't object to Christians expressing their beliefs, so long as they aren't doing it with taxpayer funds.

As a matter of fact, nontheists do take initiative to make the world a better place. The Humanist Society of Greater Phoenix has donated thousands of dollars to American Red Cross disaster relief efforts and regularly collects donations for HomeBase Youth Services, a secular charity for at-risk and homeless youth. The Phoenix Atheists meetup group picked two tons of oranges that were then donated to a local food bank earlier this year. Many atheists contribute to secular charities that provide medical care and human welfare support (rather than Bibles) to people locally and in developing nations, help people stay out of poverty, provide educational scholarships, and so forth.

"Blaine Simpson" wrote:

"Wow, it must be lonely to be so mentally superior to all persons religious and non-religious."

I think this is what is known as a straw-man argument.

A lonely ski trail that leads
Away into the depths of the forest
A lonely ski trail that curves
It's way over hills and steeps
Over bogs where the new snow flies
And the old pines are sparse and stunted
It is my thoughts that creep
Further and further away

A lonely ski trail that disappears
In the loneliness of the forest
A human life that runs itself out
On paths that no one knows -
The answers remained far distant
To the questions that filled the heart -
A meandering track on the icy snow
Was my roving way

A lonely ski trail that ends
At a sudden precipice
Where windswept spruces lean
Out over the cliff's edge
How coldly the stars twinkle
How dark the forest stands
How light the snowflakes fall
Covering the trail

Bertel Gripenberg

It's amazing how many religious and non-religious morons there are on this forum. Religious and atheist alike are both responsible for some pretty bad behavior over the years. Atheists crying about religion being responsible for much evil in the world is just as hypocritical as it would be for a religious person to cry about what they say the atheists have done. Grow up, people!

Atheists crying about religion being responsible for much evil in the world is just as hypocritical as it would be for a religious person to cry about what they say the atheists have done. Grow up, people!

No?

'Cuz the list of atrocities done in the name of religion is practically endless.

You make no sense, friend.

Act Justly, Love, etc.
Please reread Eric's post. He says name me one person who did horrible things in the name of Atheism.
What Stalin, Pol Pot and the remainder of the you can't remember clan did was not in the name of Atheism. They did what they did because they were sadistic Assholes.
First we learn to read.....Then we learn to comment.