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FB- you need to get your eyes checked, as well as your brain if you think Michelle Lacrow is hot. I think she should stay home on the couch eating chocalates, watching reruns of Jerry Springer. She is a has-been. She has a sly smile like she found a special place for that megaphone.
At any rate, this looks like a pretty good time and for a good cause. I cant wait untill the next one!

Since when is enforcing our immigration laws racist? I see numerous racist statements in your article towards Americans. Stop the BS and respect our laws or be arrested and deported. Simple enough?

Feathered-fucktard you crack me up in just about every article you write, which is why I keep coming back for more. Hence, your style is like no other journo, whose styles are just plain basic.

Those singled digit IQ`d natavists at the protest site were straight up uncivilized beyond all comprehension, which is why I left them long ago. They are undeciplined, uneducated, unwelcomed scumlords of the streets. They need to be nuetered to prevent incestuous inbreeding.

Kudos to the demostrators for their well performed demostrations against Sheriff "ARPAYASO" and Lil! Joe Thomas. I like that--Arpayaso! A KKKlown!

Thus, the hirusuted natavists are on a losing streak, heading straight for the South in numerical terms. And like the old saying goes--"The proof is in the pudding."
His support base is faltering and the retogrades are in for a rude awakening.
The valley is behind the true law enforcers, catching the felons that the Sheriff won't catch.

Jim the Natavist

"demonstration, hastily organized via the Internet"

Where on the internet? I want to join the protests too!

Stephen says:

Since when is enforcing our immigration laws racist?

Since they were rewritten in the 1920's at the urging of the behest of the most powerful lobbying group of that time--The Ku Klux Klan. Up until the 1920's anyone who wanted to come to America to work pretty much could. You got on a boat, showed up at Ellis Island, gave your name (often got issued a new Americanized name by the idiot working the desk), took the 6 second health exam to prove you did not have TB and as you departed Ellis Island one of the political parties gave you a bowl of soup, bread and registered you to vote.

I am not encouraging a return to that free of immigration, but the mountains of red tape today's immigrants go through were designed in the 20's to keep Catholics from Southern and Central Europe out and today are used to keep Latinos out. It was designed by racists to be an exclusionary system. It is time to reform the system to allow a guest worker program and to begin to keep the promise of Lady Liberty.

Don't eat like a pig, Joe. People will think you are one. You know, like, in your off hours.

Never seen Bommersbach, have you?

Thursday's Arizona Republic had an article by JJ Hensley in the Valley & State section, describing the results of Uncle Joe's latest "crime suppression sweep" -- this time in Fountain Hills.

Census figures show that fewer than 5 percent of its 20,000 residents are Hispanic.

Yet, 16 out of 20 individuals arrested in the Fountain Hills sweep "were suspected of being in the country illegally".

That's right, 80 percent of those arrested were brown-skinned Hispanics, though this same group comprises less than 5 percent of local residents.

Yet, MCSO continues to claim that it's all just coincidence, and that deputies and posse members aren't targeting members of a certain race.

Even Uncle Joe expressed surprise at the results, saying of Tuesday and Wednesday's figures (7 out of 10, and 9 out of 10 respectively) "I'm a little surprised, quite frankly...that's double what we arrested in two days in Guadalupe".

MCSO attempted to blame the latest example of its pattern of racial profiling on "early morning construction traffic".

Mr. Hensley did not report whether this disclaimer was accompanied by an insolent grin and a knowing wink, or by shifty, averted eyes on the part of the MCSO flack offering it.

Meanwhile, as Mr. Lemons will no doubt soon be informing us, Governor Napolitano has signed an executive order resulting in the withdrawal of more than a million dollars in state funds from MCSO, redirecting it to a state task-force designed to apprehend those with outstanding felony warrants -- specifically, those involving the most serious, most dangerous crimes against society, especially targeting individuals with recidivist records of unprovoked violent crimes.

Another example of the stellar, informative and unbiased reporting that we have come to expect and admire from this wonderful journalist.
The way his prose flows makes the reader yearn with anticipation of the coming words.

As some that was at this event, I want to share a story about the real racists that were in attendance.

That would be the Latino gentleman that was calling me a racist and when I pointed out to him that my father was a black man, the gentleman immediately proceeded to call me an Oreo. Both myself and my wife were taken back by the irony of the whole incident BUT alas since that guys was Latino and I look white....I must be the racist....because everyone knows that the "poor immigrants" and their supporters can't possibly be racist. Organizations such as La Raza are simply here to protect their heritage.

I am so sick of the whole thing that I think I am going to sneak across the border into Canada and become an illegal alien. They seem to be the one's benefitting from the current situation the most.

There's no pictures up after the link to see more pics from the demonstration.

Good job staying on his ass- most working class folks cant/dont have the time in between their 4 kids and 2 jobs to break for a quick protest. ....

On tactics (to those whom doubt ineffectiveness of certain types of protest)

.....kudos to those tactics (shaming the good ol boys), one of many we all need to be open-minded in using- there is no "one way" (ie. "non violence" or "militancy") its not all black and white- embrace the diversity of these (and other) tactics, you dont have to condone them- just dont condemn them, because in the end you are just turning off another that has the same common goal as you

Sorry, Drew. Technical difficulties. The tech boys are workin' on it. All apologies.

"I see numerous racist statements in your article towards Americans. "

Americans are not a race, and hence one cannot be racist against Americans as a whole. It is a nationality, and a nationality that many different races claim.

Smooth says, "I look white....I must be the racist...."

To infer that only white people can be racist IS racist.

Camilla,

Actually, Hispanic isn't a race either, but it doesn't stop them from inferring that any citizen who speaks out in defense of their civil and human rights consideration is a racist.. deal with that please.

Also, let's lay down some more truth. Hispanic are European, and that includes all of them, no matter what shade their skin is. As an indigenous person, I am offended when illegal aliens from south of the border try to pretend to being indigenous.. it was their ancestors, the Spanish who committed genocide against the indigenous peoples of what is now called "Latin" America.. what's more, those same ancestors of theirs, the Spanish are the ones who created the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I notice that you ignored the fact that the illegal alien that was referenced made a racist remark about an African American.. why do you find that fact inconvenient? Perhaps your own racism is the problem.

Illegal aliens no matter what their country of origin are here in violation of our laws. Laws that are intended to protect the rights of American citizens, their wage and workplace protections. Their ability to be sure that their children have decent school, that our resources be used to invest in the citizens of the US, so they can have a future.

Good for the protestors! It seems like Joe is loosing membership! Are the rednecks leaving too?

Smoothie sorry..Keith Lefbre ,

It makes no difference if you are even 100% black or From France, Sonora, Via Cruz or from Poland or from Guatemala or Ireland or were born on the desert somewhere after your parents walked for 3 1/2 days. Not even if you were born the son of Jessie Jackson or The Mailman Or if you were raised by wolves for that matter.

You are a hateful racist because of what you stand for and what you are trying to do. Your attempts to destroy the poorest of the poor at The Macehuelli Center's chance to earn enough money to feed themselves or their family (taking jobs you are not seeking) is the act of a racist and a coward. Your hiding behind the whole "Rule Of Law" crap when it's a misdemeanor to cross the border. That is sad and pathetic. Your view points (rarely shared anymore because you are too busy defending your Internet Tough Guy Image)
And your actions are against Humanity. They hurt real people and because of your racist attitude, you have become blind to that reality as did those that followed Hitler in the early years in Germany.

And the fact that you spend so much time reading the New Times and commenting ( a privilege none of your Racist little websites will allow me) is truly funny when you try to constantly put down Lemon's articles-you have your nose in them more then anyones.

If you haven't listen to this video, it's pretty funny to watch the old blubbering fool.

The last 3 minutes of this interview is pretty far out there....

Arpaio has lost it mentally....Listen to the moron...My Money, Me, Me, Me... 4000 storm troopers, 3000 asst. strom troopers, helicopters, jeeps, tanks, guns, badges, they aren't going to stop me.... if this isn't going off the deep end, what is ?

http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvextra-index.html?nvid=244980

Jenny--i think you have your facts inaccurately distorted regarding those "indigenous" peoples.

The peoples of European decents were largely Portigeuos who mixed with the Amerindians hence to be called Meztizos or in common referenced called Hispanics.

It was those indigenous peoples both in Latin and North America who now oppose the Columbus Day for atrocities committed on Native peoples through genocidal means. Thus called the Manifest Destiny!
Well I can't blame them. Because I would be pissed off too if we had the Hitler`s Day holiday which will never happen.

In other news tonight our very own Phil Gordon along with the Prez of the U.S. is currently in Isreal meeting with our most powerful allys in the Middle East!!

This gives him the boost he needs to battle the little hordes of natavism who are trying their hardest to recall the Mayor, which is not working!

It will be a flawless victory for our Mayor!

Jim the Natavist

Thank god somebody is standing up against this Nazi. The real issue is Arpaio is arresting people who are just trying to make a living. He's arresting them on a bullshit charge of human smuggling. The law was not written to be interpreted that way. He's a crook, how many people have suffered because of his bullshit system?

How many more people will suffer if he's elected again? I don't see Arpaio going after any white collar criminals, the majority of the people he has locked up haven't even been convicted of anything. Let's actually make Maricopa County a decent place and boot this douche bag out!

The only illegal Alien I saw last night (or ever) was the one in the picture. No Human Being is Illegal. This is part of the racist brainwashing that the far-right agenda has been pushing for years. It is unfortunate that it has become the norm. A person crossing into Az without legal documents has commited a Misdemeanor. It doesn't make me an Illegal Alien because I was driving 76 MPH on the 101 today. It is the same thing. This whole line of thinking is twisted. That is why Arpaio and his supporters are all fired up and would rather jail cooks than crooks. Meanwhile, the Meth epidemic is increasing as are unserved warrants. The truth is that fewer them 10% of rapes, murders or child molestations are committed by Undocumented immigrants. They cannot collect welfare and most pay taxes and Social Security Funds they will never see.

If you think for one minute that this isn't about Racism, watch this short video taken by a Legal U.S. resident. This is a friend of mine and a wonderful and very religious person. This is because of her skin color and who they think she might be. It is very offensive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X8e9GgWGdA

The nativists STILL can't figure out why they are called racists? It is very simple. Of ALL the laws that are flagrantly violated in this country, of all the laws which may be unjust or unfairly applied, of all the causes in this nation which cry out for justice, the one the nativists groups are so concerned about is immigration law, and while they will try to claim otherwise, they constantly focus on Mexico.

They aren't in the streets protesting a war of aggression against Iraq, which was brought about under false pretenses(HINT: lying to congress, as Bush did, is a crime), and has led to the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, roughly 4,000 soldiers, and the destruction of America's reputation worldwide. They didn't protest the army covering up what happened to Pat Tillman, or what the government is doing at Gitmo, or in Abu Ghraib. They don't protest millions of dollars given away every year to help subvert elections in countries around the world.

They aren't protesting the widening gap between America's rich and poor, they don't protest tax breaks for the rich, the destruction of social programs which are there for everyone, they don't demand tougher regulation for media ownership or defense contractors. They're filled with rage about day laborers, but they never say a word against the fact that our government continually insists there is no money for a national health insurance plan, while they buy all manner of military technology. They didn't protest de-industrialization of America, the useless War on Drugs, or the fact that Arizona is a "Right to Work" state.

They aren't out there protesting the world-wide slave trade in women, or the role that US military bases and foreign policy has played in the growth of this disgusting industry.

They did not protest Bush stealing at least one election, they do not protest the electoral college system which makes this possible, the system that has thus far kept the US limited to a two-party oligarchy.

Alas, they have not one peep to say about these things, but some of them will be out EVERY day protesting a day labor center, crying about ENFORCING THE LAW! Here is a fact that will shock you: ALL of you benefit from immigration, far more than you imagine.

Did you eat at a fastfood restaurant built in the past 20 or so years? Thank the immigrants.

Do you enjoy shopping at one of Phoenix's many department stores or shopping complexes? Immigrants built that too. You benefit from their labor, and the companies you buy from benefit as well- there is a clear economic benefit.

Do you live in one of the thousands of cookie-cutter suburban homes built around Phoenix? Immigrant labor.

But perhaps there are those among you who want to claim that immigration has lowered the wages for construction jobs and thus leaves it open for immigrants and the poorest section of American society. Well whose fault was that? More often than not a bunch of middle-class, often white, small businessmen. Middle-class whites, exactly the kind of people protesting immigration while ignoring the fact that America is a Right to Work state and organized unions could have protected the wages of builders.

I myself do not particularly like the immigration situation worldwide today. If it were up to me, Mexicans and everyone else would have enough opportunities in their own land so that they would never feel forced to leave just to survive. Where I live the immigration issue is about Uzbeks and Tajiks mostly, and just like in America the native population here often complains or decries these immigrants, never considering that in their case(the Uzbeks, Tajiks, and other Central Asians), they came here to Moscow because a handful of Russians stole the infrastructure and wealth of their nations. They forget that under the Soviet Union, Tajiks and Uzbeks had virtually every opportunity to become scientists, engineers, and technicians, up unto the point that they had "independence" forced upon them and they lost things like free higher education, vital industries, and the collective economic wealth of the USSR. What the Muscovites so often forget is that the average Russian worker has far more common cause with the lowly Uzbek or Tajik street sweeper than with the Slavic Russian oligarchs that cruise Moscow in their luxury cars, actively destroying Russian society with the corruption and hedonism they promote.

The situation is not far different from that of the United States, or any industrialized country for that matter. Immigration today is a form of exploitation, but the nativists, no matter how much they will say otherwise, want to blame the victim. They will sometimes claim they wish Mexico's government would do more to help its people- very well then, WHY aren't they working with political groups in Mexico to accomplish just that? Why don't they work to organize immigrants to protect their labor rights here in America, something that would ultimately benefit not only the immigrants but American citizens as well?

When we look at all these disparities, between what these nativist groups protest and what they ignore, how can one not attribute it to racism? How could it possibly be about something other than race or ethnicity? If it isn't about race, why is it that almost every week some group is busted as having Neo-Nazi members or ties? Why do White Nationalists find the movement so easy to infiltrate, and why do they count it as one of their key issues for recruitment?

I have posed many of the questions and points here, specifically what laws they protest and what things they ignore, numerous times, and no nativist has had an answer for me. No, on here they prefer to challenge people to fights, and make implications about peoples' alleged sexual orientation. If THOSE are true Americans, then America is truly doomed.

Heil Bush, Heil Arpaio, Heil Thomas, Heil McCain !
Leonard Clark
Chair of the Joe Arpaio and Andrew Thomas Recall Campaigns
623-206-2039

Slavinsky,

What you just posted is brilliant. Thank you for saying what I've wanted to say but haven't been able to as I am not even in the same league as you when it comes to writing. That was really well said. Thank you.

Stephen, another outstanding article, photos and video. Gives a real picture of what has been driving the State of Arizona! Vote Joe and Andy out! We've had enough.

Slavyanski,

Eloquent and so true. Couldn't have said it any better.

Slavyanski, very well said

Also one thing I want to add is why don't you ever see these nativist complaining about all the American jobs that are sent and given to Asian countries on a daily basis! these are really the jobs most american would take but yet they complain about the jobs they won't take, I just read that Chase is cutting 420 jobs here in Phx that will be sent to the Philippines I have personally seen how many people have been affected by this issue hundreads of co-workers have been affected in the last 5 years. but yet no word on the nativist on the issue, why? because it has nothing to do with Mexicans!

Another lawless Mexican. Investigations are underway, more will be reveled.

Phoenix PLEA has issued there opinion on Guadalupe; they want nothing to do with the lawless community and have made that clear in their statement.

http://www.azplea.com/docs/fairbanks_guadalupe_letter.pdf

WTF are you talking about Anon? I think you are on the wrong thread. But thanks for stopping by.....

Here is a link for Slavyanski and Gillman and the rest of the "We are saving the world" crowd.
Enjoy....you should feel right at home at this site.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/index.htm

And here's a link for you and your drunken buddies smooth.....

http://www.choppertownnation.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1344

My, my, my!!
Yes smooth, you just scare the pants right off of me.

Internet Tuff Guy smooth,

Thats right. I am part of the "We Are Saving The World" Crowd. I'm damn proud of it also. So who you going to have run for Mayor if you recall Gordon ?

Buffalo- I like to expose myself in front of children- Rick?

Elton-I regret nothing in my past- Nazi Hall?

Rusty-I'll get all the other white trash racists to hang out at Reza's place in the heat while I do what most spoiled rich kids do,go to sex clubs, hire Undocumented-Childress?

How about Bob Haren- oh never mind, the only one qualifyed you called a traitor remember?

Smooth, I expected that none of you could account for yourselves in relation to what I posted on here, that is the discrepancy between all the crimes and injustices you ignore, and the one's you obsess over to the point of forming an alphabet soup of different organizations and having daily protests in some cases.

I don't speak for Gillman, but as for me, yes I am a Communist. So what? It took me a long time, but I finally realized that I have more in common with the Mexican worker, in all practical sense, than with some property-owning American capitalist. Maybe you ought to try READING that Manifesto and learning something for a change.

You scream "THEY'RE TAKIN' OUR JAAAAAAAAAAAAWBS!!!!", and then you blame the victims, not the guys who give the jobs away to the lowest bidder. You make up statistics about how much they allegedly cost the government, which are repeatedly proven false by the government's own records, and all the while you fail to realize the economic benefit that you enjoy due to immigration, whether you like it or not.

When you cozy up to capitalism, you are embracing the very people who caused this situation, whether one is pro-immigrant or against. And let me clarify that I am pro-immigrant on the grounds that I am pro-worker, and we need to be able to organize these workers from Mexico. This can only benefit all workers in the state.

In the long run, solving the migration crisis involves organization and action on both sides of the border. Of course we all know that the Nativists won't have any of that.

Slavyanski says

I don't speak for Gillman, but as for me, yes I am a Communist. So what? It took me a long time, but I finally realized that I have more in common with the Mexican worker, in all practical sense, than with some property-owning American capitalist. Maybe you ought to try READING that Manifesto and learning something for a change.

And the above post is an outstanding example of the people that read this paper....the people that are on the "open border" side and the people that I will stand and fight to the death to protect my country from.
You see Slavyanski, the citizens of our country will never bow to communism....we like being "property owning capitalist"....we like being able to have "stuff" and to pray to whatever god we choose.....I will die protecting my country from being invaded by people that would dishonor my flag or the American way of life...something you obviousely can't grasp.
If you like communism and have so much more in common with the Mexican worker then why not go to Mexico and make change in their country? Organize those great people to take their country back from the elites that own it. The huge issue that I have and will continue to have is that you and people like you think it is OK for invaders to sneak across a border with their hands out asking for a meal ticket and their "rights". Instead of someone having the balls to take back their country, they come here and rape the "system" that we put in place for our citizens. I paid more in taxes last year than alot of people make annually and I am tired of the "save the world" people asking for more programs and services to help more invaders.
Want to make a difference? Organize the mexicans....grab some guns and go to Mexico and fix the fucking problem....don't run from it and come hide in my backyard and ask me and mine to feed you and to sell out our future because you don't have the guts to take back your country.....thats what the "poor immigrant" is doing. When my forefathers wanted a better life....they came here with their hat in their hand and knocked on the front door of Ellis Island and said "May I"? They assimilated proudly to a new life for themselves. They did not carry protests signs or their country's flags in the street demanding "rights".......so don't talk to me about being a "property owning capatilist as you stand with a group of people representing people who don't have the balls to challenge what is happening in their country.....you stand with people who claim to be "victims"....victim to me in this case is just another word for someone who can't fight for themselves.
Call me a racist, I know what I am and so does my family and those that are important to me. Not one person who knows me would ever use that word to describe me...not one.
I served in the military of this country and took an oath to defend it against ALL enemies and I will stand and do that until the day that I die.
But I won't do it standing in another country bitching for my "civil rights".

smooth says
".......so don't talk to me about being a "property owning capatilist as you stand with a group of people representing people who don't have the balls to challenge what is happening in their country.."

So tell me smooth, it takes balls to camp out in front of a work center and harass people? You know, since that's how you morons are choosing to do battle on the illegal immigration field.
And....

".....I will die protecting my country from being invaded by people that would dishonor my flag or the American way of life..."

I hope none of you keel over from heatstroke in front of the Macehualli work center while fighting this issue to the death...lol.

Time for a history lesson...

"I will stand and fight to the death to protect my country from."

Sure...sure.

"You see Slavyanski, the citizens of our country will never bow to communism...."

You make it seem like America has no history of a Communist party, albeit one which turned revisionist after WWII. Communists were very active in the labor movement, which secured many of the gains for labor that Americans still enjoy today(though we lost many of them).

Your problem with illegal immigration stems from an inherent feature of capitalism, yet you claim you will fight to the death for the very thing that causes the "problem" people like you endlessly whine about.

Why is that exactly? Perhaps you just hate Mexicans.

"we like being "property owning capitalist"....we like being able to have "stuff" and to pray to whatever god we choose....."

You don't know what a capitalist is, obviously. You cannot have a country consisting entirely of capitalists- there would be nobody to do any work or produce anything.

Also, praying to whatever god is useless when you have no healthcare, no job, or no money. And you can only have as much "stuff" as you can afford.

"I will die protecting my country from being invaded by people that would dishonor my flag or the American way of life...something you obviousely can't grasp."

How the HELL are they dishonoring the "American way of life"? By building those shopping malls where you buy your precious "stuff"? By building those suburban houses you drool over(despite the fact that it is the bank who owns those houses for most of your life)? By building roads, schools, hospitals, and bridges? Have YOU seen any construction sites in Phoenix lately?

"If you like communism and have so much more in common with the Mexican worker then why not go to Mexico and make change in their country?"

If you are a working class person, you have more in common in terms of practical interests. with other working class people regardless of nationality, than you do with capitalists of your own nation. This is called 'class'. Like it or not, it is an objective fact.

Though I live in Russia, I am in communication with various parties through which we can establish contacts to parties in Mexico; so yes, I may not be able to directly influence the situation, but at least I am part of the solution.

"Organize those great people to take their country back from the elites that own it."

That is what factions like the Communist Party of Mexico are trying to do. But organization has to be on both sides of the borders- guess who is backing the elite of Mexico?

"The huge issue that I have and will continue to have is that you and people like you think it is OK for invaders to sneak across a border with their hands out asking for a meal ticket and their "rights". "

And I will continue to take issue with people who won't explain why, if they are simply opposed to people sneaking across the border, they refuse to even consider some kind of guest-worker program allowing them to come over legally. After all, this isn't about RACE right? It's just about the LAAAAAWL!!!!

Secondly, WTF do you mean hands out asking for a meal ticket? What do you think they are doing at those day labor centers? GO TO A GODDAMNED CONSTRUCTION SITE SOME TIME.

"Instead of someone having the balls to take back their country, they come here and rape the "system" that we put in place for our citizens."

Guess who has ensured that situation in Mexico.

" I paid more in taxes last year than alot of people make annually and I am tired of the "save the world" people asking for more programs and services to help more invaders."

Most of your taxes go to military spending. The tax burden of healthcare for undocumented workers is minimal, plus that healthcare also benefits citizens, who use it more frequently than undocumented workers.

You are whining about nothing.

Oh and on the subject of tax dollars being wasted: HOW MANY IRAQ WAR PROTESTS HAVE YOU BEEN TO?

"don't run from it and come hide in my backyard and ask me and mine to feed you and to sell out our future because you don't have the guts to take back your country."

Who the hell is asking you to feed them? Again, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE DAY LABOR CENTERS?

"....thats what the "poor immigrant" is doing. When my forefathers wanted a better life....they came here with their hat in their hand and knocked on the front door of Ellis Island and said "May I"? They assimilated proudly to a new life for themselves."

Well if they were Irish, Italian, Slavic, or German Catholic, I assure you there were plenty of people who hated them too.

" They did not carry protests signs or their country's flags in the street demanding "rights"

Don't be so sure about that.

Let me tell you where this pro-immigrant movement really comes from. Malcontent middle-class paranoid nutjobs created a non-existent bogeyman. Republican politicians saw it as a great way to distract from all the ways they have been screwing up the nation. YOUR side started the hysteria over NOTHING, whining about brazenly false statistics and non-existent tax burdens.

Their marches are a reaction to that.

".......so don't talk to me about being a "property owning capatilist as you stand with a group of people representing people who don't have the balls to challenge what is happening in their country"

Gee, if you want to talk about balls, what about what the Russians did in 1917? America's government and business community didn't like that too much. WHAT do you think they will do if there is a revolution in Mexico, that isn't complimented by revolutionary action in the US?

".....you stand with people who claim to be "victims"....victim to me in this case is just another word for someone who can't fight for themselves."

Ok, so bombs land on a city and everyone in there was simply a weakling who couldn't fight for themselves. Great logic.

"Call me a racist, I know what I am and so does my family and those that are important to me. Not one person who knows me would ever use that word to describe me...not one."

I have sat face to face with Neo-Nazis, and I have had many a debate with them, and I have to tell you that at least I can have a shred of respect for someone who admits their racism. You speak about people being cowards, well just choose a camp and put up your flag.

If ALL you are concerned about is the law being broken(a non-criminal offense), then the easiest, quickest, most practical solution is a guest-worker program to facilitate legal migration. Why don't your groups support that?

"I served in the military of this country and took an oath to defend it against ALL enemies and I will stand and do that until the day that I die."

So what do you want? A medal?

And your response allows me to rest my case.

You commie asshole, you don't even live here?

Mind your own business and stop wasting my time with your obviously uneducated uninformed opinions of the situation at hand.

You have no clue what is going on here unless you are walking our streets and have children sitting in our schools.

Go away....it is irritating me that I am even discussing this subject with someone that does not even live in this country.

Guess reading isn't one of your strong suits. I no longer live in the States but I am a native of Phoenix, I lived there most of my life, and I went to public school there. So I know exactly what is going on there with immigration. I know about the shopping centers, cinemas, tracts of housing, etc. I know who is building all that. From early 2003 to roughly before I left in early 2006, I worked in the construction industry, and visited perhaps a few hundred construction sites of every type. So I know who is building all those facilities you enjoy. You have claimed these people come here looking for a handout. This is demonstrably false. In fact the US "hands out" less and less even to its own citizens.

So just take that into account before you of all people calls someone else "uneducated."

PS- You forgot to call me a faggot. You guys are reallying starting to slack off.

smooth, you should take your own advice and MYOB also. You and your fuckbuddy steele do not live in Guad yet you two feel compelled to comment on our town and mayor as if it affects you directly.

Or better yet, in your own words....

"You have no clue what is going on here unless you are walking our streets and have children sitting in our schools."

I rest my case.....

Slavyanski says:
Guess reading isn't one of your strong suits. I no longer live in the States but I am a native of Phoenix, I lived there most of my life, and I went to public school there.

HUH????????????

That's it, I quit....I can't keep up with this crap.

OK you guys are right.....I am wrong....please forgive me for my sins....or whatever i am supposed to say in this fantasyland you people dwell in.

It's true that revolutionary socialists of various kinds have placed pressure on capitalist governments which resulted in the passage of progressive and reformist legislation.

People tend to forget, with the Bolsheviks pre-empting the concept of socialism, that the idea of modern socialism began not in Russia but in Germany, and that Germany began the road to the so-called "welfare state" under Otto Von Bismarck in the 1880s, with such things as the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, the Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and the Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889, all of which were intended to co-opt socialist ideas of the day; and these were also precursors to the New Deal of the 1930s which had similar goals (i.e., the preservation of capitalism and of the existing social order).

Even the Communist Manifesto of 1848 demanded such things (now taken for granted) as "free education for all children in public schools" and "abolition of children's factory labor", as well as "a progressive income tax" and "centralization of credit by means of a national bank".

The point is that those in power are motivated to accept compromises only if the alternative requires them to lose still more power than a compromise would demand; and that in the absence of left-wing pressure making moderate liberal reforms palatable, the inevitable tendency of social elites (and the political system they effectively control by means of campaign financing, concentrated media ownership, and so forth) is to consolidate power, to erode progressive reforms, and in essence to suck-up as much of the good stuff for themselves as they can get away with, all under the Pollyanna platitude that social medicine, while bitter, is good for you, and that the masses must be made to take their medicine.

That said, Stalinist individuals of dubious provenence like Slavyanski, though offering a superficially attractive line, can only be described as a kind of "poison-pill" for the left: by linking progressive causes with the sort of totalitarianism associated (by neo-conservatives) with leftist movements, under the deceptive banner of "real-world socialism", they suggest that anyone seeking to improve their nation or the world along progressive lines must inevitably be led to, or else be dominated by, those promoting anti-democratic principles; and thus Slavyanski and his ilk ultimately cater to the "myth of socialism" promulgated by the political right-wing. It is either a tragic if inadvertent perversion, or else a deliberate and very subtle form of reactionary subversion. Take your pick.

The point is that there is no such entity as "the masses". The term in question refers to a collection of INDIVIDUALS and it is only their rights (natural, moral, political, and otherwise) as individuals that make up the epiphenomenal "masses". It is no more justified to abuse the personal property rights (or other rights) of one's neighbor in the name of a movement advancing "the masses" than it would be to kidnap one's neighbor, place them in an experimental medical lab, and subject them to various diseases in the name of finding a cure for millions or billions in the future.

I believe that socialism is a natural development, an evolution from existing economic systems: but it is not the "socialism" common depicted as representative of such ideas.

Well I guess Smooth dropped out because he couldn't understand the concept of people using devices such as airplanes to live in other countries. If a Mexican can work in America, can an American not live and work in Russia? I am surprised that alone never crossed his mind.

As usual, Emil has to come in and, while pretending to support the idea of socialism, clearly accepts in full the standard right-wing narrative on real-world socialism, uncritically. And this is supposed to be a "leftist".

This focus on the "individual" is the problem. Humans are a social being, get over it. The condition for the free and full development of the individual is the free development of the whole. People like you simply cannot understand the concept of moderation between respect for the individual and the necessary development for the masses. You are basically catering to two opposing sides.

You denigrate real-world socialism, and yet your individualist, anarchist like beliefs never started a revolution, they never created nations where there were only nomadic steppe-peoples, they never created new written languages for such people, they did not eliminate illiteracy, did not mechanize agriculture finally putting an end to frequent famines which were common in places like China and the Russian Empire. They did not defeat Fascism; up to 80% of the German military was destroyed on the Eastern front. Your individualist left did not put the first man or woman into space, did not materially help the liberation of former colonies, nor has it ever provided healthcare or pensions to an entire nation.

In other words, your idividualist ideology is totally unproven, having never actually existed in practice for any significant amount of time, which provides you with an excellent platform from which to snipe at REAL socialism just because your idea is de facto "innocent". Of course we have seen the horrors and almost laughable tragedy of such cults of the individual in Ukraine and Spain, so we would not be entirely blind.

When faced with all the real accomplishments of real-world socialism, folks like you, JUST like the conservatives and even Fascists, immediately scream: "But at WHAT PRICE?" Then cue the endless quotes from Solzhenitsyn, a handful of dissidents, telephone number death tolls. Almost ALWAYS, pseudo-leftists will actually exceed average anti-Communists in their diligence to state "Communist crimes". They will do this willingly, repeating any anti-Communist source without qualification or criticism.

What price indeed...everyone in the West focuses on the dissidents who amount to a handful of people in a country that had roughly 170-180 million. Nobody takes the time to talk to actual people who led normal fulfilling lives under Stalin, the very same people who along with someone like Robert Thurston or J. Arch Getty, could confirm that average Soviet people in fact did not live in fear of a knock on the door at any given night. People who lived through that era could tell you that story today. Perhaps they know something that you don't?

The events in Russia of that period were rooted in Russian history and culture, for better or worse. You cringe in horror at class struggle being carried out, and yet if you spent enough time in this society and saw the sheer rapaciousness of the ruling class here, and the corruption of their underlings, you would understand why extreme measures were necessary, and are necessary.

Till then, do not go on pretending to be a leftist while upholding and even exceeding in some respects, the standard bourgeoisie line on real-world socialism, one which has been refuted even by mainstream scholars. Your idealistic has not been tried in the real world, which thus does not give you a free pass to snipe at any ideology that did exist and was forced to deal with the conditions of time and place. Worship of the individual may seem nice for people who have grown up in a privileged country, and perhaps a privileged life, but in the real world, it is a childish fantasy.

The real reason for this kind of "leftist" reaction to real world socialism is simply cowardice. You don't want to break up the fantasy of privileged life in the west, that workers' power comes through struggle, and it can only be maintained by vigilance. Rather than dissect and challenge the claims about real-world socialist states, rather than make comparisons and analogies or take the time to actually find the truth, you just pretend that this somehow had nothing to do with socialism, close your eyes to it, and hope it will go away, or that the right will stop beating you over the head with it. How well has that strategy worked so far?

smooth, why did you take down your picture? Don't want us to see you or the company you keep? I thought you were oh so tough! If you don't want people to be looking into you, then I suggest you not post your name, number, etc,. Come on smooth, we all know what Dennis looks like and apparently a lot of people now know where he lives thanks to your fuckbuddy friends. i don't see him trying to erase any of his info, pictures, etc. So that proves he's has more testicular fortitude than you. Game over smooth.....

Slavyanski, you just don't get it. Your scary Stalinist paleo-Communism isn't doing you -- or socialism -- any good. (Admittedly it isn't much in evidence here, and New Times readers familiar only with your posts here may wonder what on earth I'm talking about. Those with a wider acquaintanceship know why I cringe whenever you call yourself a socialist.)

Whether you're genuine or (as I believe) a synthetic creation put together from right-wing myths and propaganda, your kind has done more to undermine the socialist movement than any reactionaries. They don't need to argue from their shaky positions on economic or social justice, because they have you conveniently at hand. Whenever people start to get the idea that socialism might actually improve their quality of life, in practical, democratic ways, they trot out the snaggletoothed specter of Red Terror and Stalinist dictatorship. You're a walking propaganda error, Slavyanski.

As for me, unlike you I am sufficiently well acquainted with labor history to understand the difference between the need for struggle and the need for "extreme measures" (as you euphemistically term the terroristic policies of the totalitarian police-state you advocate). It does not altogether surprise me that you converted from neo-Nazism to Stalinism -- if, indeed, anything you say about your political background can be taken at face value: your whole purpose here seems to be to pop-up in threads involving progressive protest groups, alienate potential well-wishers with your Stalinist rhetoric, and otherwise act like a police-spy caught in a time warp. Alles klar, Herr Kommissar?

I believe that truth is more likely to emerge from a process of thesis, anti-thesis, and synthesis, than from dogma. That is, opposing sides on political, social, and economic issues often have elements of truth -- on both sides. These elements should be recognized and integrated into new belief structures. These in turn will also have their opponents, and again there will be elements of truth on both sides. The process is continuing, evolutionary, and responsive to changing conditions as well as to differences in time and place and in historical context.

That said, I also believe that politics, to the extent that it is a form of organized, collective action, needs to be coordinated by a well-disciplined, centralized, and reasonably coherent political party. That makes the need for vigorous, free debate all the more important, because once political decisions are made its members are required to adhere to them.

If any of this makes me naive or anarchic in your Stalinist playbook, Slavyanski, then I proudly (if whimsically) wear such labels as a badge of honor.

i love it!

dont eat like a pig sheriff joe, or people will think your one.

hahaha, that pic looks like some cartoon from some mad magazine spoof...

michelle was hurt from the statement

"white privilege is lame"

of course she retaliated

"why are you being racist"

she has no dialectical aptitude of white supremacy plus she's the puppet of the sick capitali$ts who're using her and those other non-rich anglo types.

sheesh one things for sure they'll pollute all the other's grey beard of that 'white's only' generation to suppliment present day anglo youth to continue xenophobic white privilege culture.

yeah, yeah, it don't exist. wrong, it does when your not the one using/doing it.